Tenant trying to claim I didn't show How to Rent booklet WHEN I DID !!! HELP !!! | Discuss

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Tenant trying to claim I didn't show How to Rent booklet WHEN I DID !!! HELP !!!
30/06/2017
11:21 am
Harry
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What do I do when a tenant is saying I didn’t give them the How to Rent booklet when I did?
Does signing that they’ve seen the EPC count as providing the How to Rent booklet too?

This is a very difficult tenant who lied on their initial application and is now trying to get me in trouble, even though I’ve followed all the legislation to the letter!

Any advice would be much appreciated.

30/06/2017
1:30 pm
Landlord Geoff
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“Does signing that they’ve seen the EPC count as providing the How to Rent booklet too?”

No, it most certainly does not

Full time experienced landlord & property investment mentor in West Yorkshire.

http://www.landlordgeoff.co.uk

30/06/2017
4:12 pm
orchid
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Sorry it does not. The EPC and Right to rent are 2 different things. What I do is go through everything as tedious as it is, explain and answer questions and then get them to sign a document saying that I have explained everything to them and issued them with the Right to Rent/EPC/Gas Certificate. I ensure everything is dated, names are in full with addresses. A copy for the tenants is always given. It takes time, but it does protect you.

One of my tenants tried to tell me I had to let her move out before I could let people view. I promptly reminded her of said document she signed and the Right to Rent had been issued to her and the fact that we had gone through it together page by page. On that score she promptly said in that case she would move out before the tenancy came to an end. Of course she tried to get money back, I then pointed out, it was her choice to move and as far as I was concerned her moving date was as we previously agreed so no refunds.

The reason I go through and discuss with them every page is because I know most are only interested in getting the keys and won’t bother to read the document. It’s like the small print in contracts that people don’t read. Then when they get stung they claim they were not told.

30/06/2017
10:22 pm
David Price
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Hindsight is a wonderful teacher and you can learn from it.  Get the tenant to sign a copy of the How to Rent booklet and keep it in your archives, I keep an electronic copy to save storing the physical item. 

Following a colleague’s recent court case in which the tenant said his signature was a forgery, I now ask for a thumb print in addition to the signature. 

The government has introduced draconian rules for landlords and I regret that only meticulous documentation can overcome them.  For some reason the government sees landlords as the enemy, they will soon learn their mistake when they have to deal with the inevitable homelessness which will result from the relentless onslaught on landlords.

Every document should be signed and thumb printed on every page, particularly deposit information.  Make sure that the tenant does this before you sign the tenancy agreement – no excuses you have too much to lose.

01/07/2017
4:53 pm
Fair2U
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I don’t think it is ever too late to show it to tenant. Why not email the pdf YellSurprisedcopy, available on government website?

16/07/2017
1:38 pm
rigsby
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Send another one out with proof of postage with a letter saying “as discussed please find enclosed a replacement copy of xxxxxxxx?

18/07/2017
9:07 pm
Owen
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Yeah that sucks, I’ve added a set of 3 checkboxes to tenancy agreements, immediately above where the T signs acknowledging they have had all 3 sets of documents – and on the inventory (which they sign the bottom of each page), note down the smoke alarms and have a tested yes/no section to demonstrate compliance with that bit of legislation too.

18/07/2017
11:31 pm
David Price
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The daft thing about that booklet is that it should be read several days or weeks before a tenancy is contemplated, not as it is signed.  Print it on tissue then at least it will have a second use.

20/07/2017
10:18 am
SamiiB
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Via Twitter:

Senior PR Officer at TenantReferencingUK.com & Admin at NLCEuk.co.uk .

Any queries email me at:

samii@landlordreferencing.co.uk / samii.boydprice@nlceuk.co.uk or give me a call on: 0800 9994 994 (option 6).

19/09/2017
11:34 am
Amy
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Hmmm. All my self contained tenants with families  have been in occupation for a 4-5 years 

I have been concentrating on my HMO’s just lately. 

Those that have deposits registered under the new deposit laws have been given  what i describe as the “prescribed information”   i make them sign that paperwork and keep a copy of the deposit cert and the prescribed info.  

I am about to embark on renting out a property that have been vacated after 5 years 

So is there new paperwork called the Right to rent? and by law,   i am supposed to give a copy to the tenant, with the AST  ? I thought that paperwork was only provided by councils for new tenants that are still looking? 

12/10/2017
1:09 pm
Amy
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If this post is disagreeable to this forum please delete.

OK. I have been  landlady for years and years and have protected all my deposits with the My Deposit Service. I have given my tenant the Info for Tenants leaflet and a certificate with the reference on. I have got the tenants to sign their and my copies to say they have received the certificate and the Info for tenants leaflet. I thought i was complying with the law and that i would be heavily fined if i didn’t . Most of the problems occur as someone pointed out- that tenants never read their paperwork and do not know the law. This can be understandable if they are working to keep a roof over their families heads etc. So i sit and explain and have put it in big writing. That if we, landlord and tenant work together and keep our side of the terms  , everything will go swimmingly  

I have now seen the other side of the fence. From the tenants side. 

I thought it was illegal for a letting agent to give a S21 to a tenant on the day of  his contract from 2015 onwards ? 

I thought the tenant was protected if the landlord did not protect the deposit. 

I am currently making enquiries on behalf of a family member who signed up with a letting agent. 

He was given a S21 on the day (Spring 2017) he signed his tenancy.

He believed that at the end of the tenancy he would be given a new contract as long as he did not give notice. Thats how it works with my tenants. I don’t give contracts my are rolling on. 

Not so, the letting agency have told him has has to leave because he did not give them notice of his intention to stay or leave. They are sticking by their S21 

They have rented his room and 3 other tenants rooms out  via computer pictures and told him the room has been rented and paid for. So he is urgently looking for lodgings. 

He has since been told by MyDeposits that his deposit is not protected .His contract says it is protected by My Deposits. He is making enquiries of the other two deposit schemes. 

He will tell them he is leaving on the date his contract ends. 

So i phoned ‘Disputes’ for advice today to learn what i thought i knew was the rules. 

I did not tell them i was a landlady

I was told that its Ok to give a S21 on the day the contract starts.It was also mentioned that it was very agreeable of the letting agent to give him so much  notice. The tenant is not required to give notice if a S21 is served. When he leaves the tenant asks for his deposit back and if the full deposit is given back (even though it is not protected) then everyone is happy. No come back on the landlord. This is new to me. Why am i paying to protect all my deposits?

I always give my full deposits back because i usually  have a good relationship with my tenants so i don’t have to protect it then? . 

The chap i spoke to said that if tenant does not get his full deposit back,  then to contact the dispute phone number . The tenant will have to consult and pay for a solicitor for it to go to court for a judge to decide if the full deposit can be returned. The tenant will only get the basic deposit and have to ask for costs for a solicitor. 

The landlord will be charged 3 x the amount of deposit.

Being an agreeable landlord i would like to know where this 3 x the amount of the deposit goes?  I always thought it was the tenant that received it for not having his deposit protected and the aggravation whilst trying to work of getting it back. 

I am really willing to listen to anybody that knows all these points of law and corrects me. . 

16/10/2017
8:32 pm
rigsby
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Amy said
If this post is disagreeable to this forum please delete.

OK. I have been  landlady for years and years and have protected all my deposits with the My Deposit Service. I have given my tenant the Info for Tenants leaflet and a certificate with the reference on. I have got the tenants to sign their and my copies to say they have received the certificate and the Info for tenants leaflet. I thought i was complying with the law and that i would be heavily fined if i didn’t . Most of the problems occur as someone pointed out- that tenants never read their paperwork and do not know the law. This can be understandable if they are working to keep a roof over their families heads etc. So i sit and explain and have put it in big writing. That if we, landlord and tenant work together and keep our side of the terms  , everything will go swimmingly  

I have now seen the other side of the fence. From the tenants side. 

I thought it was illegal for a letting agent to give a S21 to a tenant on the day of  his contract from 2015 onwards ? Not if it is a renewal and the tenants and property are the same.

I thought the tenant was protected if the landlord did not protect the deposit. The tenant can make a legal claim against the landlord for up to  three times the value of the deposit. See Shelters website for guidence. 

I am currently making enquiries on behalf of a family member who signed up with a letting agent. 

He was given a S21 on the day (Spring 2017) he signed his tenancy. Was it a renewal? If so thats ok.

He believed that at the end of the tenancy he would be given a new contract as long as he did not give notice. Never guarented, he should have asked the question. Thats how it works with my tenants. I don’t give contracts my are rolling on. 

Not so, the letting agency have told him has has to leave Not without a court order he doesnt. because he did not give them notice of his intention to stay or leave. They are sticking by their S21 Which may not be valid.

They have rented his room and 3 other tenants rooms out  via computer pictures and told him the room has been rented and paid for. He doesnt need to leave without a court order and has the protection of  “Protection from Eviction Act 1977″. It is a criminal offence (not civil) if you (agent or landlord) are convicted of breaching it. So he is urgently looking for lodgings. 

He has since been told by MyDeposits that his deposit is not protected .His contract says it is protected by My Deposits. He is making enquiries of the other two deposit schemes. 

He will tell them he is leaving on the date his contract ends. If the S21 is invalid the agent needs to serve another and he (tenant) can either leave on the last day of the tenancy or has the right to give one months notice once the tenancy becomes periodic.

So i phoned ‘Disputes’ for advice today to learn what i thought i knew was the rules. 

I did not tell them i was a landlady

I was told that its Ok to give a S21 on the day the contract starts. If a renewalIt was also mentioned that it was very agreeable of the letting agent to give him so much  notice. The tenant is not required to give notice if a S21 is served. When he leaves the tenant asks for his deposit back and if the full deposit is given back (even though it is not protected) then everyone is happy. The tenant can still make a claim for up to 3 times the value of the deposit.No come back on the landlord. This is new to me. Why am i paying to protect all my deposits?DPS is free.

I always give my full deposits back because i usually  have a good relationship with my tenants so i don’t have to protect it then? .Yes you do. 

The chap i spoke to said that if tenant does not get his full deposit back,  then to contact the dispute phone number. No point if it hasnt been protected.The tenant will have to consult and pay for a solicitor See Shelter website for guidence for it to go to court for a judge to decide if the full deposit can be returned. The tenant will only get the basic deposit and have to ask for costs for a solicitor. 

The landlord will be charged 3 x the amount of deposit. Up to 3 times the value of the deposit

Being an agreeable landlord i would like to know where this 3 x the amount of the deposit goes? To the tenant or the relevant (person who paid it) person  I always thought it was the tenant that received it for not having his deposit protected and the aggravation whilst trying to work of getting it back. 

I am really willing to listen to anybody that knows all these points of law and corrects me. .   

17/10/2017
6:29 am
PaulBarrett
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Since 2011

Anytime a new AST is issued even if all the tenants etc remains  the same a new DPC and PI and HTR booklet MUST be supplied to anyone who has an interest in the deposit even if NOT a tenant on the AST.

This has been the law since 2011

All LL  no matter how nice are required legally to comply with ALL deposit regulations.

S21 regulations have changed; not sure when! 

 

No S21 is permitted to be served for new AST until the beginning  of the fourth rental period of a 6 month AST.

It must be used no later than 6 months after the expiry of the 6 month AST

If not used another S21 needs to be served  if in a SPT.

Providing a S21 was issued before the new S21 process was started then it is still valid.

But I believe if a new AST us issued then the new S21 process applies.

31/10/2017
2:15 pm
Amy
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