Section 21 or Section 8? A simple video guide to Section 21 | Page 2 | Discuss

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Section 21 or Section 8? A simple video guide to Section 21
22/05/2013
7:10 am
LyndonBaker
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Ray, follow Mary’s advice.

Not protecting the deposit opens all the wrong doors. The law is protect the deposit – tenants cannot give you a waiver from that law, but if there is no deposit, as per Mary’s plan, you have an escape route! Take it.

22/05/2013
10:43 am
Ray71
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The deposit has been used as this months rent as agreed by the tenant so I could pay my mortgage.With this in mind would it be likely to be thrown out or would it be ok if it went to court.Would I still be penalised as I never originally secured the deposit?

As 2 months rent will be due come 2nd June would it be better to wait until then and serve section 8 and 21 notices or should I serve sec8 now and sec21 on 2nd June?

22/05/2013
2:57 pm
Mary Latham
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Ray71 said
The deposit has been used as this months rent as agreed by the tenant so I could pay my mortgage.With this in mind would it be likely to be thrown out or would it be ok if it went to court.Would I still be penalised as I never originally secured the deposit?

As 2 months rent will be due8come 2nd June would it be better to wait until then and serve section 8 and 21 notices or should I serve sec8 now and sec21 on 2nd June?

Have you got the tenants agreement to use the deposit as a rent payment or did you just assume that you could?  If you haven’t got the tenants agreement you are back to square one.

 

On 2nd June will there be 2 missing rent payments or did the one that you took from the deposit cover one of them?  If you did you will need to wait another month. You would probably be safer using S8 on the day after the second months rent payment is outstanding because the deposit protection issue could spoil you S21.

 

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22/05/2013
4:39 pm
Ray71
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When I used the deposit to pay this months rent I advised the tenant by text message tgat I was going to use their deposit to pay my mortgage and said if they didnt agree to contact me.I never heard back from them so I used it to pay my mortgage.That was used to pay the mortgage payment for this month of May.The most frustating thing to all this is that they do not answer my phone calls or my text messages so I just dont know where I stand.Something needs to be done though as this is driving me nuts and I dont really want to wait until June to take further action as I cannot afford to not have the property let out!!

22/05/2013
9:41 pm
LyndonBaker
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Ray, Please follow Mary’s advice.

 

By not protecting the deposit you have broken the law! You did NOT have their consent to use the deposit for the mortgage payment.

Mary’s advice offers you a way out. I strongly suggest you take it.

22/05/2013
9:46 pm
thebarn1
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I am agreeing with Mary and Lyndon – take it as your way out.

22/05/2013
11:39 pm
Mary Latham
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Ray71 Since you did not get their consent to use their deposit to pay your mortgage you will still have deposit issues.  A deposit can only be used during the tenancy with the tenants consent it is only at the end of the tenancy that you have the legal right to withhold monies from their deposit and only then when you can prove that they own you that money for rent, damages or losses.  The law requires us to register their deposit with an approved scheme to enable them to ask for arbitration if they disagree with the monies that you have withheld and by not doing as the law requires you have deprived your tenants of their legal rights.  They can take legal action against you and this could cost you up to 400% of the deposit if they win – they don’t have to prove that they don’t owe you rent, you have to prove that the deposit was protected and that you gave them the correct information within 30 days of receiving it.

 

I really do understand that you need to pay your mortgage but you need to sort out your legal position BEFORE you even think about taking action to evict these tenants – they will probably get advice when you serve Notice and they will know that they can gain a lot of money by taking action against you.

 

Im sorry to add to your troubles but please do not ignore this information

 

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22/05/2013
11:55 pm
LyndonBaker
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LyndonBaker said
Ray, Please follow Mary’s advice.

 

By not protecting the deposit you have broken the law! You did NOT have their consent to use the deposit for the mortgage payment.

Mary’s advice offers you a way out. I strongly suggest you take it.

Ray, Until now I have never repeated one of my posts, but I feel that I must on this occasion. Please, please, please follow Mary’s advice. I do not want to read about your experience in the trade press as an example of what NOT to do. I do not want to belittle your situation or mock your ability as a landlord BUT the law is weighted in favour of tenants these days. If your property is in the BS postcode area I will offer to find and reference new tenants for you free of charge if you follow Mary’s advice.

 

 

23/05/2013
12:35 am
PaulBarrett
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ray You must be a beginner LL

mate YOU have f—-ed up big time.

Just accept it 

The law is on the side of tenants and NEVER forget it!

Repay the deposit.

Start proceedings to evict

See if the tenants will accept the deposit as payment for rent and get them to sign to that situation.

Pray they don’t know about deposit regs.

Ask them to leave; if not start S 8 and S21 process.

Mary and Lyndon are 100% correct

NEVER discount ANYTHING that Mary ever advises………………………..she is NEVER wrong!

If you know what is good for you; you will read these and other fora and LEARN!!

Had you been on fora before you would have read the extensive warnings that Mary disseminated accross various web fora a;; about the issues with new deposit regs prior to April 2013.

If you don’t know about this vital legislation, what else don’t you know about the LL game!!?

You should be very worried about your level of knowledge.

Try and do as much as you can to upskill yourself otherwise you will come a cropper over something else you won’t know about.

You will need to be on a very steep learning curve.

Hopefully you escape this bad situation you are in without too much financial detriment but somehow I doubt it!!

23/05/2013
12:52 am
LyndonBaker
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PaulB, why do you thin k I offered him a FREE service if he was in the BS postcode area? i think Ray71 has got the message! Wink

 

I would, however, congratulate you on the correct plural of forum, so rarely used these days. Cry

23/05/2013
7:53 am
Ray71
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Thanks for all your advice on here guys, u have probably saved me hundreds in solicitors fees already so I really appreciate your help.I know what I need to do now.

Just one more question for Mary-

I will pay the deposit back as u suggested but could I pay this into a deposit scheme instead of paying it to the tenant so that it is protected.I have read in another post on here that this has been accepted legally when it goes to court.

23/05/2013
10:12 am
LyndonBaker
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PaulB, why do you think I offered him a FREE service if he was in the BS postcode area? i think Ray71 has got the message! Wink   I would, however, congratulate you on the correct plural of forum, so rarely used these days. Cry

23/05/2013
6:09 pm
Ray71
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Any takers on my last question regarding securing the deposit??

23/05/2013
8:20 pm
Mary Latham
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Ray71 said
Thanks for all your advice on here guys, u have probably saved me hundreds in solicitors fees already so I really appreciate your help.I know what I need to do now.

Just one more question for Mary-

I will pay the deposit back as u suggested but could I pay this into a deposit scheme instead of paying it to the tenant so that it is protected.I have read in another post on here that this has been accepted legally when it goes to court.

Ray, Before the law was changed in the Localism Act 2012 a landlord could get away with late protection even up to the day before the court appearance. ALL THIS CHANGED IN MAY 2012.  Now we have JUST 30 DAYS from TAKING THE DEPOSIT to PROTECT IT and TO GIVE THE TENANT THE PRESCRIBED INFORMATION AND COPY OF THE PROTECTION CERTIFICATE.

I promise you if there was any other way I would have told you. You have no option but to repay the deposit or get agreement in writing that it can be used for the outstanding rent.

Even when a tenant does not reply to a text message he is reading it, trust me.  Send a text saying if they agree to you keeping the deposit and moving out the day before the next rent is due you will let them walk away and will not pursue them for the lost rent.  If he replies go and see him and take a typed agreement that the deposit will be used for some of the rent he owes and get him to sign it.  FIRST send him an email giving 24 hours Notice that you will be coming to talk about things.  This is also a legal requirement and must be in writing a text message will not do.

 

As soon as he has gone put his details on LRS to warn us all.

 

Post to say how you got on please

 

Good luck

 

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23/05/2013
8:46 pm
Ray71
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Mary I have recd a text from my tenant stating that she wants to remain in my property and has given a £100 pound cash payment to my mum (she lives in same rd as my mum) and has said she will pay £100 per day to pay this months rent.She said she can only withdraw £100 per day maximum (bit odd).I havent issd any notices yet as I.m waiting for my agency to get back to me.She has also said that she will be paying the full rent due once she gets a payment into her bank account.

Its all a bit strange but any advice appreciated.

24/07/2014
7:12 pm
Tenant Referencing
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There is now no reason why any landlord or Letting Agent should make a mistake when serving a SECTION 21 NOTICE because LRS has produced this simply to follow video.

Please let you know if there is anything in this video which is not clear or if there are any questions that you need us to answer.

 

http://youtu.be/IfLNPgzHOMA

24/07/2014
11:23 pm
David Price
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Interested in your comment that only the legal owner named at the land registry can sign the court form.  What about a rent to rent situation? What about the situation where the person named at the land registry is not the legal owner, a nominee for instance?

I appreciate that an agent cannot sign but there are many situations where the person or organisation named at the land registry would not be the appropriate signatory.

25/07/2014
10:55 am
Mary Latham
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I am so pleased to see this on the site. The question that I am asked more than any other is “How do I serve a Section 21” and many other landlords tell me that they have already served and when I go into the detail they have got it wrong.  

Many Section 21’s fail because the date is wrong and this video explains clearly when that date is important. The other big issue is that landlords have failed to protect the deposit or have not served the correct information on the tenant within 30 days – also covered in this well thought out video.

I will now have a place to point landlords to so that they do not get it wrong – I will be redundant at this rate!!!

 

David the Court cannot give possession of a property to a person who is not the legal owner or their legal representative. This is one of the dangers of Rent to Rent. If the Renter needs Possession he must involve the landlord/owner in the process.

If this were not the case I could go to court and ask the Judge to give me possession of one of your properties – that cannot happen.

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25/07/2014
2:44 pm
David Price
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Mary I consider that your reasoning is in error and this presents a dilemma.  Consider the case where C rents a property from A the person named on the land registry title who is representing the beneficial owner B and then C issues an AST to D.  Who signs what and when?  I know what I think but would like a second or third opinion with supporting statute or case law.

I believe that only the party to the AST can issue proceedings and that the owner and the beneficial owner are not party to the contract and are not involved in any way.  In my example above the court will give possession to C not A or B and it is C who signs all the legal documents including the AST.

In any case in the ultimate analysis the crown owns all the land in the UK – now that presents a quite different scenario . . .

PS  Mary you will never be redundant. Smile

25/07/2014
6:35 pm
Mary Latham
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David there is a very good article on rent to rent and the issues of possession

here http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/….._term=feed

Sorry David I haven’t time to search for case law 

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