ICO & The Landlord | Discuss

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ICO & The Landlord
20/08/2013
8:32 am
Pierce & Co Leighton Buzzard
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How many landlords on here are ICO registered (Not part of their business) and are vetted to a CRB standard or enhanced level?

Mark A Reynolds Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents http://www.pierceandco.co.uk 01296 20 1234

20/08/2013
8:56 am
Paul Routledge
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I think I am confused at the question? Why would they need to be is this a how long is a piece of string question?Confused

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
20/08/2013
11:01 am
Adam Hosker
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markr works for the Information Commissioner Office and checking how many landlords are registered under Data Protection – as they hold sensitive data on 3rd parties (tenants)…

I have too many licences including an Alcohol Licencee, but that’s just for the weekends.

20/08/2013
11:13 am
Pierce & Co Leighton Buzzard
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Adam Hosker said
markr works for the Information Commissioner Office and checking how many landlords are registered under Data Protection – as they hold sensitive data on 3rd parties (tenants)…

I have too many licences including an Alcohol Licencee, but that’s just for the weekends.

Correct! Except the bit about working for the ICO :) Those that know me on here know otherwise – and when I say know I mean know :)

Mark A Reynolds Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents http://www.pierceandco.co.uk 01296 20 1234

20/08/2013
11:32 am
Paul Routledge
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I still dont understand what is being implied Confused. But if it is landlords need a data protection licence to take tenants we are in for a laughLaugh

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
20/08/2013
12:57 pm
Adam Hosker
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Well, they technically do Paul. As they are conducting a business activity and holds personal and financial data about 3rd parties. I do not though think the ICO is overly bothered about landlords. They may be about Letting Agents or Landlords with more than a few properties.

Last time i got a DPA licence, it was about £35 and a matter of completing a simple form and ticking some boxes of that data we held.

20/08/2013
2:13 pm
Tracey
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Exactly how is the tenant considered as a “third party?” Confused

20/08/2013
5:17 pm
Paul Routledge
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They absolutely do not.

They are not holding personal data for third party activity they hold personal data as a legitimate interest in a contract of tenure and therefore do not need a licence to hold it. They do not need a licence to offer it as a reference as long as they do not pass on the sensitive data to another party for use in any other manner than for that which is was gathered.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
20/08/2013
5:53 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
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I know the business holds an ICO licence.  The business lets my properties, so do I need anything?  I have a driving licence, a passport, plus two horse passports for the two that I own.  LOL?

Cathy

http://www.heritage4homes.co.uk

20/08/2013
7:30 pm
Adam Hosker
West Yorkshire, England
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Cathy, If your a Property/Letting/Estate Agent then you do need a licence, Few Prosecutions.

Do Landlords need a “Data Protection Licence”?

The Data Protection Act 1998 requires every organisation that processes personal information to register with the Information Commissioner’s Office

Paul, I do not follow. They are holding personal data for their own use and for the use in connection with their legitimate 3rd party business activities with Tenant Reference Agencies, Debt Collectors, Insurance Companies, Mortgage Company, Rent Guarantee Company and Legal System, Local Benefits Office and Management Agents. Having a contract means little.
Unless theirs an express exception for Landlords, I don’t know why their not required.

@, perhaps i used third party wrong. “holds personal and financial data about another party”.

If Landlords use a letting agent, then they do have a proxy to negate the Data Protection Licence requirement as their not processing or holding data.

Mark Alexander seems to say the same thing. Its probably required but ICO wont be chasing landlords.

20/08/2013
7:56 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
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Adam, I was jesting a bit.  Yes I am an estate/letting agent, go and check out my website if you havent already done it.  Yes, we do possess all the relevant documentation to enable us to trade, we are TPO members, ARLA agents, SAFEagents, are registered with the ICO, Data Protection Act Commissioners and also hold a CCL, plus our referencing agency requires a fair bit of us in the way of compliance as well.  

Thanks for the advice though.

Cathy

http://www.heritage4homes.co.uk

20/08/2013
8:16 pm
Adam Hosker
West Yorkshire, England
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ahh, you’ve not got lack of licences. Heritage clearly have too many.

20/08/2013
8:20 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
North Somerset/Bristol
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Add to that a TV licence as well, both hubby and daughter have driving licences as well.  We dont do things by half at Heritage.

Cathy

http://www.heritage4homes.co.uk

20/08/2013
9:32 pm
LyndonBaker
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Heritage Estate Agents said
Add to that a TV licence as well, both hubby and daughter have driving licences as well.  We dont do things by half at Heritage.

Cathy

http://www.heritage4homes.co.uk

You forgot your Marriage licence, Cathy.

 

20/08/2013
9:39 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
North Somerset/Bristol
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This true Lyndon, and its still valid!!!!!!

Now do you have a valid dog licence(s)?

20/08/2013
9:49 pm
LyndonBaker
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Heritage Estate Agents said
This true Lyndon, and its still valid!!!!!!

Now do you have a valid dog licence(s)?

Luckily we don’t need them but I would pay £100 a year (each) for my five beautiful girls. They are well worth it. Well most of the time the exceptions being when they open my veins with their claws through play.

BTW – Marriage licences are not renewable! Smile

20/08/2013
10:01 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
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LOL, I know, but some people treat it like it is renewable annually.  I have proudly had mine for nearly 19 years and wont be renewing this one.

I dont have dogs, but horses need passports, at extortionate amounts, especially when you own two of the dam things.  Like you though I would not put a price on things like this.

 

21/08/2013
3:32 am
Paul Routledge
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Adam Hosker said
Cathy, If your a Property/Letting/Estate Agent then you do need a licence, Few Prosecutions.

Do Landlords need a “Data Protection Licence”?

The Data Protection Act 1998 requires every organisation that processes personal information to register with the Information Commissioner’s Office

Paul, I do not follow. They are holding personal data for their own use and for the use in connection with their legitimate 3rd party business activities with Tenant Reference Agencies, Debt Collectors, Insurance Companies, Mortgage Company, Rent Guarantee Company and Legal System, Local Benefits Office and Management Agents. Having a contract means little.
Unless theirs an express exception for Landlords, I don’t know why their not required.

@, perhaps i used third party wrong. “holds personal and financial data about another party”.

If Landlords use a letting agent, then they do have a proxy to negate the Data Protection Licence requirement as their not processing or holding data.

Mark Alexander seems to say the same thing. Its probably required but ICO wont be chasing landlords.

 

Adam,

I appreciate that you and the Marks may think the same thing and I do not wish to be disparaging when I say “Grandmother sucking eggs” but I think it is fair to say that after 3 years and untold reference to this issue I may be ahead of you on this subject.

You have made the fundamental mistake, and fairly so of trying to understand the data protection laws by deciphering what is written word for word in their breakdown of what should be done V’ fairness.

As a landlord you do not need a data protection licence if you are using the information that you have gathered for purposes of referencing for yourself in a contract that you yourself are entering into with another person. That is called a legitimate interest and therefore comes under exceptions and exemptions for gathering and storing data.

We all gather data from one another every day, and millions of companies gather data and reference their employees does every company in the UK need an ICO licence? – I vetted my window cleaner to make sure he was legitimate do I need to register with the ICO “No” of course we do not because we all have a legitimate interest to hold that data for a contract between us and another person and I referenced them to ensure they were ligitimate and that is exactly the same as a landlord.

Agents needs an ICO licence because they gather the information on behalf of a third party (the landlord) and that is the irony of the whole thing letting agents need an ICO licence to be able to discuss sensitive data with the landlord and any other 3rd party yet they try and hide behind data protection to say they cant.

The thing to remember here is that even if the estate agent sticks the tenancy agreement in their name and refuse to give the details to the landlord it makes no difference in law. The landlord always has a statutory contact with all of their tenants thus making them the 3rd party between tenants and letting agent.

If you break it down as follows

ICO licence required;

Party 1:  Tenant

Part 2:  Letting Agent

Party 3: Landlord 

 

No Licence required:

Part 1: Tenant

Party 2: landlord

Party 3: none

 

Aaaagh!! I hear you say but the landlord passes the information onto LRS and that makes them the 3rd party – “No” because the landlord has a legitimate interest in that tenant they can upload the tenant’s details onto a storage file for the purposes of referencing.  If landlordReferencing.co.uk then went on and sold or distributed those details to the third party for use on a different use than first intended then as you say, landlords could technically need a licence but they and we don’t. LRS only give out the landlords and/or letting agents name on a match thus not passing sensitive data onto a third party.

That my friend is why LRS is so damn clever and that is why after years of oppression landlords can now legitimately and legally talk to one another and stop taking one another’s bad tenants.

 

Not joined us yet, please join Landlordreferencing.co.uk today free

You really don’t need to take my last bad tenant anymore.

 

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
21/08/2013
10:22 am
Adam Hosker
West Yorkshire, England
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Yes – Ive only had a Data Protection Licence for three years but did not read snippets, I scanned trough the act periodicity – I did again today and it outlines nothing about “fairness” exception you allude.

Your taking the view that Landlords are not a business and are entering a contract 1to1, theirs no exclusion for that.
What you have is the “data controller” (landlord) and a “data subject” (tenant) with the data controller “processing” that data to third parties such as LRS.
Closest to an exception for landlords would be Section 36, but landlord business is not personal, family or household affairs. SCHEDULE 7 has no relevant exceptions.

As landlords ask about disabilities, sex and criminal offences on references – its “sensitive personal data” the rest of the information just being “personal data” what you do with your Window Cleaner is just data.

21/08/2013
11:11 am
Paul Routledge
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Adam,

We have had this argument for 3 years and have proven this point time after time, I am afraid I do not have the time to break down the entire conversations with the ICO, and every other body that excepts that what I say is the truth.

Data which is obtained and used for the same purpose for which it was gathered and used between two parties for the purpose of referencing is excluded from requiring a licence under the terms of a legitimate interest between two parties who are referencing for the same purpose as the data was gathered.. 

As I say I do not mean to be rude but I have not got the time to go over this again and again and find all the relevant specifics to prove a point to you,  I have told you what the law is as we all interpret it.  However If you are not prepared to take my , my solicitors,  the ICO,  the television advertising authority – clear cast,  Experian, and every other tom **** ******* **** **** ******** ******* ***** **** **** **** ***** ******* ********* ******** *** **** ****** ********** ************ **** *********** ************* and harry that has researched us and made these allegations over this issue for 3 years then I cannot move an immovable object and we will just have to disagree.

 

I am sure that as long as you have your licence then you are happy safe eh!!.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
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