Generation rent strikes back with new 'TripAdvisor for tenants' site - A TWIST ON TENANT REFERENCING! | Discuss

Welcome to the Property Forum where we can share our knowledge & experiences together to become better at what we do.

 Forum Terms & Conditions


Page not looking right? Please CLICK HERE to RELOAD

Enlarge/Change font size here

A A A

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —





 

— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Related Related Topics sp_TopicIcon
Generation rent strikes back with new 'TripAdvisor for tenants' site - A TWIST ON TENANT REFERENCING!
17/05/2014
1:17 pm
Mary Latham
Member
Suporter
Forum Posts: 2190
Member Since:
17/05/2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Generation rent strikes back with new 'TripAdvisor for tenants' site

"Landlords be warned: Generation Rent is about to get its revenge. The first national website allowing tenants to review rental properties in which they have stayed has launched, with the aiming of becoming the TripAdvisor of the rental market.
RentalRaters is the brainchild of 40-year-old Hannah Williams, who herself lives in a rented property in Crystal Palace, south London, with her two children. She founded the site last year, but it did not launch formally until this week and already has a handful of reviews."

source http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....87260.html

LANDLORDS AND LETTING AGENTS who are nervous that joining Landlord Refrencing YOU MUST JOIN NOW to make this a level playing field.

Personally I think that the new trip adviser is a great idea - this will incentivise landlords and letting agents to treat tenants with respect and for those good landlords who have always done so we will stand out from the others - I love it and I'm going to ask all my tenants to post a review on there for me.

Follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

17/05/2014
1:33 pm
David Price
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1644
Member Since:
12/10/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mary I see a big problem with this.

I have a flat which I have let for the last 25 years with no damp problems, bar one tenancy.  The particular tenant refused to ventilate, blocked the built in ventilators, kept the place like a suana and then blamed me for the dampness and mould.  The result of this would be a dozen or so tenants who were happy and did not bother to post on the new site and one who gave me a bad report.

17/05/2014
4:55 pm
PaulBarrett
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2892
Member Since:
12/10/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Who cares what a tenant might say!; properties are massively short of supply.

Most tenants will ignore what ANY trip adviser states and see for themselves.

They know that wrongun tenants will post negative info on a LL

Very few tenants will ignore a rental opportunity on the say so of some past tenant!!

So I would not care about any negative info on me.

But I would like a right of reply to any negative info.

With LRS most negative info is about rental arrears!!

Not very subjective; rather an absolute!

Really bad LL might have concerns; but again even horrible property is in demand; cos there just ain't enough rental property around!

I can't think of ANY negative info that any ex tenant would post on me; apart from the one's I evicted for rent arrears!!

Will we truly see on the GR site; the nasty LL evicted me cos I wouldn't pay his exorbitant rent; even though I signed the AST.

I was forced to cos I had nowhere else to stay!!

 

 

 

17/05/2014
5:06 pm
David Price
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1644
Member Since:
12/10/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

PaulBarrett said
Really bad LL might have concerns; but again even horrible property is in demand; cos there just ain't enough rental property around!

I can't think of ANY negative info that any ex tenant would post on me; apart from the one's I evicted for rent arrears!!

Paul that is my point, only bad tenants will bother to post comments.

17/05/2014
5:19 pm
Katherine
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 69
Member Since:
28/11/2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In principle this is a great idea. I have some concerns if a tenant leaves negative feedback, I understand the landlord has the option to reply, but how will the landlord be aware of any feedback ?

As tenants leave feedback at the end of a tenancy how will this help tenants that may have already applied for the property and paid application fees/holding deposit.

Properties with a high turnover will get more feed back, if they have a high turnover they may be a good reason and this will result in a greater percentage of properties receiving poor feedback, giving an unfair impression of the overall quality of rental properties.

Quality properties command a higher rent , will the market rent be taken into account when leaving feedback. 

For landlords that provide safe,secure decent properties and treat tenants professionally this could be an excellent marketing tool and ultimately improve standards within the PRS.

There are many reasonable tenants that will leave fair feedback.

17/05/2014
6:15 pm
Hannah Williams
Guest
Guests

Hi All

It's Hannah from http://www.rentalraters.com. We've had a hugely positive response to the site from both landlords and tenants and I cannot stress enough how we are absolutely not out to rubbish landlords. We have lots of 4 and 5 star reviews on the site. Here's one - there are many others (I won't list them all!) http://rentalraters.com/rentals/10. 

I appreciate some of the concerns expressed here, but it's simply not true that people only leave negative reviews - whether it's a hotel, a restaurant or a DVD bought on Amazon, positive reviews are left as often as negative ones - it's a deeply entrenched consumer behaviour & it's here to stay!

For obvious reasons, I want rentalraters.com to be a success, but I firmly believe that this success won't be predicated on a business model built on complaints alone - the site simply won't survive!

Thanks, once again, for taking the time to comment. We really are listening and open to suggestions and ideas.

 

All the best.

Hannah

18/05/2014
10:15 am
Paul Routledge
Admin
Forum Posts: 3415
Member Since:
20/05/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hannah,

You may think this post is a great publicity coup but you need to read the posts very carefully before you proceed with this concept.

You are treading a very fine line when you take a tenants word on what they think of their landlord. I have been a landlord for over 20 years and I am known as one of the best landlords in my area by the governing bodies, however I constantly get tenants who bad mouth me and slag me off because I will not tolerate them spending the rent on booze and fags or partying every night keeping my other tenants who work awake or listen to another dead grandmother story.

I have never met one tenant who has ever blamed themselves for their eviction they always find a reason to blame the landlord. Just last week I was complained about to the council by a tenant and her boyfriend who was not even supposed to be living there, because  the tenant said I was ripping her off as I had, had the electric meter repaired and it was spinning around to quick. Ironically I was a great landlord all the time they were using £50 a week on electric heating with the windows wide open and I was paying for it and the boyfriend was staying there free and without permission. The council told them to go away and they will now use your site to carry on their lying crusade.

I for one will be waiting to see if there is any remarks on this site about me from a disgruntled tenant as every tenant I have ever evicted has said that the reason they never paid the rent was because there was some sort of outstanding maintenance issue. That is the standard defense.

If I find remarks on there about me which are untrue (Which I will be able to prove it as every part of my tenancy is documented) I will take action against the site and the tenant as I have the resource to make sure it does not happen twice.

One of the reasons that LRS never did this was because knowing tenants as we do it is a libellous minefield because we all know it is never the tenants fault. 

 

Paul Routledge CEO

Tenant Referencing UK.Com

18/05/2014
11:45 am
Mary Latham
Member
Suporter
Forum Posts: 2190
Member Since:
17/05/2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I really can understand the concerns of my colleagues Hannah and I am sure that you are listening. Paul Rouledge has been very careful to ensure that this site is NOT A BLACK LIST OF BAD TENANTS.  He has made certain that it is fully compliant with the many laws that surround this type of site.  I would like your site to become known as the site where tenants can find good landlords rather than the site where tenants can "pay back landlords".  I agree that there is now a well established culture of trip advisers and sites like Amazon and Ebay use them as a control mechanism.

I know of one big site where landlords used to engage in conversations, as they do on this site, and it was closed down following litigation because the posts were found to be libelous. The site owners were held responsible for publishing the offending statements on their forum.  I am sure that you have taken legal advice on this because it is important to remember that a libelous post can damage the commercial activities of a landlord and therefore attract a large claim for loss of income.

Having said all of this, if your site is well moderated and tenants do use it as it is intended I really do believe that the many good landlords who offer nice homes to tenants can gain from it while those who do not treat tenants with respect will realise that this is a "speed camera" and change their behaviour.

I will be watching the progress of the site with interest.  Thank you for taking the time to reply to this discussion 

Follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

18/05/2014
2:49 pm
Adam Hosker
West Yorkshire, England
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 233
Member Since:
15/03/2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

On "Rental Raters" there is Two bad ratings in Bradford both against "martin and co" who have won awards in 2013, 2012 from one organisation and two more in 2010 and 2009 from another.

One complaint as Martin and Co had in tenancy agreement that property must be professionally cleaned and tenant thought it was against OFT rules. One complaint as Martin and Co did not deal with property dilapidation; apparently.

The website is fine; I have no issues with people rating service providers. Unfortunately the website lacks the basic needs of tenants which is how to use the system to there best advantage. There is no advice for example the 2nd complaint could have used such as calling the Environmental Health which would have required the owner to take action on the exposed wires and mould; after Martin and Co refused to do anything. Perhaps a future addition to the website Hannah?

I hate SKY for charging so much for TV, my council asks for too much damn council tax and British Gas overcharge for services. Their all crap! ... So i stand by my assertion that most tenants hate there landlords for charging rent; which will result in negative views in majority of cases.

Take for instance Anti Social Behavior of youths in a Doncaster property we rent; I am 99% sure the tenant hates us. We did not ask the ASBO youths to gather there nor can an agent physically remove them! that's the council and police roles in society. I would not be surprised of a bad rating by such tenant on this website as she looks for accommodation elsewhere.

@ Williams, I wish you the best with your website. It does have a flaw in that it is a human condition is to complain. So be it!
Along with restaurants and other service providers suffering bad reviews; so will the odd landlord.
Unless the comments are defamation in which can often legally be removed if they are untrue.

18/05/2014
6:25 pm
David Price
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1644
Member Since:
12/10/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Adam I share your reservations but am heartened by the fact that none of my tenants (that is none out of 50) have a computer and most have never surfed the net in their life, so complaints about me are likely to be few and far between.  Heaven help the tenants when Universal Credit rears its ugly head.

18/05/2014
6:28 pm
lister14
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 273
Member Since:
06/11/2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Adam

Please list these tenants on LRS so other LL will not take them in.

18/05/2014
6:57 pm
Adam Hosker
West Yorkshire, England
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 233
Member Since:
15/03/2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sorry @lister14 if i was not clear; The tenant is fine the issue is youths choose outside these flats to smoke drugs and drink booze. My suggestion is that i am sure the tenant dislikes us due to this and would give the property a bad rating. When its a council/police deficiency in enforcement.

18/05/2014
11:50 pm
Scott
Guest
Guests

For what it's worth I just set up an account on the site and posted two reviews - one 5 star because there was nothing I could fault with the agents who ran the property (Finders Keepers in Oxford - use them if you ever rent property in that area) and one 2 star because whilst things were OK while I was in the property it was always more hassle than it should have been to get things fixed and the landlord made up a number of charges to deduct from my deposit after I left. All were subsequently dismissed by TDS (bar £10 out of hundreds) but going through the process was a massive hassle.

 

Good landlords will probably get some bad reviews, but the key is that as the site builds over time (and it will take years because turnover of tenants is generally fairly small, certainly no more often than 1 every 6 months) you will be able to spot the properties getting regular bad reviews (as opposed to just 1 bad review). The one thing I wonder is whether there could be some function to link properties run by the same landlord or lettings agents to help tenants spot these patterns more easily (and without waiting years for a bank of reviews to be built up)?

18/05/2014
11:57 pm
Scott
Guest
Guests

Adam - actually I think that is a fair enough thing to mention in a review. Of course there is nothing you can do about it, but it is relevant information a prospective tenant might want to know and the site is to review properties not landlords (naturally reviewing landlords and agents will be a part of that). I mentioned the opposite (particularly quiet street and neighbors) when I reviewed a property earlier tonight, and if I was going to review my last property (I didn't bother as I know LL moved back in and has no plans to rent again) I would have mentioned that whilst it's not a major issue the house at the bottom of the garden has loud parties till the early hours once or twice a year and it's a pain with living in that house.

19/05/2014
8:20 am
londonlandlord
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 208
Member Since:
29/08/2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Surely the big difference is that a landlord references the tenant because the tenant is a nonentity to the landlord. All the landlord has is a person in front of them which could be anyone from anywhere.

The tenant however has eyes, ears and a nose and therefore can see what the property is like before moving in and with a few basic questions and observations can usually tell if the property is fit for purpose and the landlord/agent is attentive to issues.

It is easy for a tenant to determine if a property is suitable before they move in whereby a landlord has to reference and hope. Also tenants have a raft of free legislation and support from councils & the CAB if their landlord or agent does not perform, a landlord however has limited options which all cost a them a fortune if the tenant turns bad. 

20/05/2014
3:44 pm
Phil Wheeler
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 208
Member Since:
18/11/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Hannah,

Well done for putting your website together. As a Landlord I am disappointed when I read bad reviews because it shows that many people are getting it wrong when it comes to renting out houses. Fortunately this is also balanced with many positive reviews of people who have had a great experience which is what is Landlords really want as happy tenants equals happy landlord.

My thoughts on the site are perhaps to hide the house number and restricting the access to that. The reason being that criminals are targeting rental properties HMOs (as posted on here by Mary Latham) and the website is making it easy to do so putting tenants at risk of being burgled and potentially upsetting their insurers.

Good luck - let's hope your site will help us eliminate the bad landlords or encourage them to become accredited so they improve and step up to the mark. I know its the small minority that let down Landlords but this can leave a lasting impression like a bad relationship with an abusive partner can impact the next relationship.

Phil

Let Sir Terry Wogan explain it - > http://www.mostpeoplesavemoney.co.uk

 

20/05/2014
4:45 pm
Guest
Guests

Hannah, its a good idea, but unlike LRS, its subjective and dependent upon a tenant's opinion.  As an ex letting agent, and a portfolio landlord, both of over 20 years experience, its one of the sad facts in the lettings business that no letting agent or landlord is ever 'perfect' in a tenant's eyes.  I know as an agent and a landlord I;ve gone above and beyond the call etc to help my tenants.  I rent out excellent, well maintained properties at good rents, keep my tenants a long time etc etc, but even acting like this, it still got back to me via my letting agent that the tenants were not happy.

To give you a small example, one of my properties is a lovely 3 bedroom semi, let to my token DSS tenant - who for the record is a good one.  We have always acted upon any maintenance issues promptly, carried out the work swiftly and with little inconvenience to the tenant etc, but read the following and see just what I have done to deserve this .....

My letting agent always renews my RGI policies on all my properties, and endeavoured to do this with this property.  However, as the tenants circumstances had changed since she was first referenced, we needed a guarantor to renew the RGI.  During that rental period the shower had leaked into the kitchen, it had been repaired, but a slight brown stain had been left in the corner of the dining room below, which was slightly unsightly, and we had told the tenant that as it required a whole replaster of the dining room ceiling, we would do it at her convenience, preferably when she went away on holiday, if that was ok with her.

Not only did she refuse to get a guarantor until we did the work, but she refused us any access, thereby cutting off her nose to spite her face.  I personally think she cannot get a guarantor, but we are in a bit of a mexican standoff with her.  However, I suspect that we will do the work anyway, as we are good landlords.  Now this is a tenant who has been looked after by us, not harrassed or inconvenienced in any way, and pays a rent £100 pcm below the market rate prevailing for a house of this type and condition.  

So, who is the baddie here?  Not us I dont think, but she thinks we are bad landlords, has told the letting agent we are bad landlords, so what would she post on this site, if she knew it was available?

At least rent arrears are not subjective, as can be reported here on LRS.  So Hannah, a great idea, but please, please be really careful about what goes on your site and moderate accordingly.

20/05/2014
5:03 pm
rentdirectuk.co.uk
Guest
Guests

Well congratulations Hannah on your new business venture, it takes guts to set out on your own.Your idea is commendable and hopefully you get  balanced views. There are equally bad landlords as tenants and in some cases there is a history of bad practice/behaviour and it is right that such blatant abusers are flagged. It does not matter if they are a landlord, tenant or letting agent - the obviously bad ones need to be flagged, it just makes things better for the many decent parties out there. At rentdirectuk.co.uk we try and promote good landlord practices as well as weeding out nuisance tenants. Very importantly we try to match the right tenant with the right landlord. well we wish you the best in your venture, have a look at our website and see if you think you could partner with us.

 

 

BTW LRS I am certain we can work together too, we have landlords that use our website that might have bad tenants to report and I am sure you can put a link of tenant search button on your website. just a thought, i think we all need to work together to make things happen. LRS you guys are doing a great job.

20/05/2014
5:58 pm
Paul Routledge
Admin
Forum Posts: 3415
Member Since:
20/05/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Rentdirect,

We may be able to work together if you have a product that may suit our landlords but most of the companies that are joining the LRS group to offer services are going to be owned by the group and its members. This is the future of LRS because it keeps our members data safe and gives them the best products at the best price. We would certainly welcome your landlords using LRS because obviously LRS the UK’s only Free Tenant Reference and Management system that includes tenant lifestyle Network References. The problem is there may be a conflict of interest because you offer a version of tenant referencing and I am sure you appreciate to us any tenant reference that does not have the LRS unique lifestyle tenant reference included in our opinion is not the safest available for landlords and letting agents.

Hannna,

As a landlord with over 100 tenants and having been in the industry for 20 years, I am still concerned about a website that allows tenants who have malicious intent adding untrue comments about a landlord and/or agent because they felt wronged but in fact were not. I Wonder how compliant that is with data protection because unlike trip advisor that is commenting on a corporate body you are allowing accusations about individual people, their property and their conduct on an open rating site and I am quite sure that is in fact against data protection.. Maybe you should check where you stand there!

Nevertheless maybe the best way to see if there are landlords and agents reading this that have been  the subject of any untrue allegation from a tenants in the past is to ask them here and I will open the batting with a resounding “Yes on many occasions” and would they have posted these untruths on your site “yes without a shadow of a doubt”

 

Paul Routledge CEO

Tenant Referencing UK.Com

21/05/2014
12:25 am
PaulBarrett
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2892
Member Since:
12/10/2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hannah read my posts on Eleornora Konodyba a complete and utter wrongun tenant if ever there was one.

She accused me of of forcing her to have sex with her and to play with my sex toys!!

A right nutter if there ever was one!!

She falsely accused me of so many other things and even lied on County Court documents.

She lied to obtain Legal Aid in a false name; the name she actually used for a tenancy with me.

Can you imagine what she might post on your site about me.

How would I prove she was lying!!??

apart fro some of the stuff she put on Court paperwork i could NOT disprove the false allegations she made to me and other residents in the same block.

She wasn't arrested by police because she was clever enough NOT to put a letter of her accusations in my letterbox.

There are many wrongun tenants out there.

NOT many LL make false claims about a tenant.

We aren't really vindictive.

We tell it as it is!!

Most tenants DON'T; they lie!!

 

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 755

Currently Online:
27 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

PaulBarrett: 2892

Mary Latham: 2190

LyndonBaker: 1805

David Price: 1644

Patricia A: 986

DATA CONTROL: 967

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2539

Members: 6322

Moderators: 6

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 3

Topics: 4466

Posts: 30959

Newest Members:

hereiam, EZI Global, lindy, mrkane, aztec, kkarimi

Moderators: SamiiB: 441, News @ Tenant Referencing: 1576, laura: 15, Chloe: 107, lucybarr: 0, jaswhite: 20

Administrators: Paul Routledge: 3415

/* ]]> */