Now is the time to draw a line in the sand. . . | Discuss

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Now is the time to draw a line in the sand. . .
28/02/2012
3:14 pm
Tenant Referencing
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After a lengthy meeting between Paul Routledge and a local authority housing team yesterday, who wished to join Landlord Referencing, we have discovered that with the increasing success of Landlord Referencing; councils are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

This is because said councils have a duty to house people who have been made homeless, and even though their past behaviour has probably warranted their previous eviction, if it cannot be proven that the tenant made themselves intentionally homeless the councils duty still exists.

However councils are now stuck in a situation whereby more and more landlords are joining our system; so now when they give a tenant a list of available landlords in their area, they are finding that more of these landlords are now networking together and so their new concern is where will these tenants go?

Quite simply a council can recommend a homeless tenant between twenty & forty different local landlords (or local B&B’s) who they feel may take a tenant who has a problematic history.

However if 35 of those pro-actively network via Landlord Referencing Services; the chances of a troublesome tenant getting a property is becoming less and less.

On February 1st 2012 we welcomed Wigan Council North West Accreditation to the Landlord Referencing Community.

We also have the support of Barnsley Residential Landlords Association, Cornwall Residential Landlords Association & The West Country Landlords Association.

So are UK councils going to continue to rehouse habitually troublesome tenants, as they have done for the past 10 years, without assisting the landlord or agent?

Or are they going to follow Wigan’s example and now tell them “Yes, we do have a duty to house you but the majority of our suggested landlords are Landlord Referencing Members; so your behaviour is likely to inhibit you getting a property“…?

We wholeheartedly believe that Landlord Referencing doesn’t just give council’s a great opportunity to meet their legislative obligations to house people but is also pro-actively educating these tenants that their continual bad behaviour, non-payment of rents & damaging of property will simply result in them not getting a property with any landlord referencing members.

Now is the time to “draw a line in the sand” and we urge all UK councils to consider joining our system.

At Landlord Referencing we believe that landlords, letting agents, councils, accreditations AND the government should be concentrating on the duty of care they have to the millions of existing good tenants right across the country who also want good neighbours, rather than rewarding the habitually bad tenants with homes that could be given to people and families who actually deserve these properties; which we all know are currently in very high demand.

Just as we saw in August of last year after the wave of rioting, looting and arson; the worst offenders who were found guilty of participating in these riots we’re legally evicted from council owned properties.

Eviction Proposals Sharpened Up After Riots

Ministers back councils over evicting rioters

First rioter given eviction notice

So, we would like to know what the difference is between the rioters of 2011 and the serial, professional bad tenants; who go from one property to another, intentionally & wilfully destroying the landlords property and/or without any intention of paying any rent?

Which inevitably leaves the landlord or letting agent in thousands of pounds worth of debt and more often than not it also affects the landlords relationship with their existing good tenants.

It would be a shame if the very same councils who didn’t want these rioters as tenants chose to think that it was fine by palming them onto us in the private rental sector.

United we stand, divided we fall.

 

  • Do you take local authority recommended tenants?

  • Do they support Landlord Referencing Services?

  • Are you continually taking another landlords bad tenant so that the council does not have a massive homeless problem in its area?

 

We firmly believe the line in the sand is to BEHAVE YOURSELF!

Simply; Step over that line and don’t get a home.

Agree with what we have to say?

Then join our pro-active community of landlords and agents ABSOLUTELY FREE here.

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29/02/2012
2:42 pm
Paul Barrett
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Doesn't the problem still exist in that even if a tenant promises to behave themselves to persuade a LL to take them on despite their bad LRS reference; is the LL likely to take them on?

Ans

NO.

How will councils now mug LL to take their homeless now that LRS is becoming a force to be reckoned with.

I think the only way is for councils to either insure the LL for any losses that occur caused by their claimant or to pay for insurance for the LL to cover his exposure to these tenants.

If the councils don't and the LL refuses to take these bad tenants what will happen?

The councils will have to spend even more money on B & B.

Hardly a good financial solution.

I think the LRS service is at last proving its worth against wrongun tenants and councils will have to come up with some persuasive solutions to persuade LL to take their claimants!

There are more than enough good tenants out there not to bother with these dregs.

Invest in some park benches!

01/03/2012
2:08 pm
Paul Routledge
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Hi Paul,

 

They do have a dilemma  that's for sure. I am glad to say that if they need insurance we have now launched our insurance products for Landlords to help keep all our other services free including the tenant alerts. @ /insurance_services/ so maybe they will join us and we can insure all the tenants for £96 a year for £50k cover 

Mind the plug but a bargain Laugh

01/03/2012
6:20 pm
PaulBarrett
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In practice though how would the RGI policy work if the LHA claimant or their guarantor failed a RGI check.

Would the council act as guarantor for the RGI policy!!?

Can you imagine what would happen if a LHA claimant put forward by a council could not pass a RGI check, nor a guarantor would the council step forward to be the guarantor.

Of course they won't, so the situation for a LL would still be impossible.

Is there a way you can see to overcome these circumstances.

I suppose there will be a certain percentage of LHA claimants that will be able to qualify for RGI, but it tends to be the ones that can't that are the ones put in B & B.

LRS is still going to prevent wrongun tenants so what can councils do to persuade LL to take them on.

02/03/2012
12:54 pm
Paul Routledge
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PaulBarrett said:

In practice though how would the RGI policy work if the LHA claimant or their guarantor failed a RGI check.

Would the council act as guarantor for the RGI policy!!?

Can you imagine what would happen if a LHA claimant put forward by a council could not pass a RGI check, nor a guarantor would the council step forward to be the guarantor.

Of course they won't, so the situation for a LL would still be impossible.

Is there a way you can see to overcome these circumstances.

I suppose there will be a certain percentage of LHA claimants that will be able to qualify for RGI, but it tends to be the ones that can't that are the ones put in B & B.

LRS is still going to prevent wrongun tenants so what can councils do to persuade LL to take them on.

I doubt that any council will ever guarantor a tenant, but if they are going to work with Landlords closer and tell tenants that if they continue to be bad they will not get a home, then those tenants will have to change their ways or as you say “ITS THE BENCH”

Councils may face a small problem in housing some bad tenants but if the message is clear then over time it will sink in to even the worst offenders and then councils and you and I the tax payer will benefit because there will not be as many problems which cost us all so dearly.

I have said many times before when shelter has said that we stop people getting homes, we do not, bad tenants stop themselves getting homes by their own hand. We should all be answerable to our own actions and its time in this Country that everyone is held to account for their actions and pay the price accordinglyYell And if they ever had any doubt as to how LandlordReferencing.co.uk stops bad tenants moving in an area this is the most powerful tool to help all our Landlords & Letting Agents and its totally free /blog/2011/02/02/809/

02/03/2012
7:46 pm
mary latham
Guest
Guests

I work very cosely with all the local authorities in the Government area of the West Midlands and all are struggling to find landlords who will help them to discharge their homeless duties.  They now have some new regulation which allows them to remove people from their lists if they can get a private landlord to house them for more than a year.  Most landlords are very happy to house people long term because churn costs money and “better the tenant that you know…” but most landlords are also aware that offering an AST for more than 6 months is very risky and they will not do it.  Some insurance companies and lenders will not allow landlords to do it either.  So here is the problem.  Landlords want good tenants.  Good tenants want good properties and good landlords.  Local authorities want to find good homes for people on their lists.

I have watched cycles of local authorities putting bond schemes in place and these are usually run by dedicated people who genuinely want to support landlords and tenants to sustain the tenancies.  Landlords have been attracted to these schemes because of the support on offer and the bond to cover a tenant who cannot provide a deposit.  Many good tenants have found nice homes with good landlords through these schemes BUT there is a high level of churn and landlords are often bitten by bad tenants and local authorities frustrated when their best efforts fails to make the tenancies work because the tenants just will not play fair.  I hear horror stories and see photographs that make me so cross. 

In my opinion Government need to go further with allowing local auithorities to discharge their homeless duties.  Where a tenant has been given a decent home and been treated fairly by the landlord if the tenacy fails because the tenant is not paying the rent is displaying anti social behaviour they should be allowed to say “you are on your own chum”.  Until this happens landlords will continue to loose trust in the authorities because they know that they might be getting the tenants who have been evicted by other landlords and even by the authority themselves.

Landlord Referencing is helping good tenants, good landlords and local authorities by preventing bad tenants being passed around and ruining the relationships between local authorities and their landlords.  When I tell landlords about Landlord Referencing they ALL pick up their pens and note the name of this site.  I have begun to tell agencies who specialise in dealing with difficult client groups too because their workload is massively increased by one rotten apple in a barrel of vulnerable tenants.

My vision of the near future is a time when we need “special” places that will house tenants who are “known” to Landlord Referencing and when this happens I will be nominating Paul Routledge for a Gong because he will have made a major difference to the private rented sector and to communties everywhere.

I have already awarded Princess Samii a crown for her amazing marking skills and for being the sweet face of LR that Paul cannot provide.

I write articles for most of the WM local authority magazines and my next one is going to be about this site. Just remember me when you are Paul Routledge OBE 

02/03/2012
9:59 pm
PaulBarrett
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Is there a possibility that LRS could ascertain ALL the evictions that are carried out and make such lists available to LRS users.

Clearly these evictees will be looking to mug some other poor landlord and it would be very useful if we could see a list of all the evictions carried out in the UK.

This must be publicly available info so what are the chances it could be accessed for dissemination on the LRS site.

lrs_keeper said:

Image Enlarger
After a lengthy meeting between Paul Routledge and a local authority housing team yesterday, who wished to join Landlord Referencing, we have discovered that with the increasing success of Landlord Referencing; councils are now caught between a rock and a hard place.

This is because said councils have a duty to house people who have been made homeless, and even though their past behaviour has probably warranted their previous eviction, if it cannot be proven that the tenant made themselves intentionally homeless the councils duty still exists.

However councils are now stuck in a situation whereby more and more landlords are joining our system; so now when they give a tenant a list of available landlords in their area, they are finding that more of these landlords are now networking together and so their new concern is where will these tenants go?

Quite simply a council can recommend a homeless tenant between twenty & forty different local landlords (or local B&B’s) who they feel may take a tenant who has a problematic history.
However if 35 of those pro-actively network via Landlord Referencing Services; the chances of a troublesome tenant getting a property is becoming less and less.

On February 1st 2012 we welcomed Wigan Council North West Accreditation to the Landlord Referencing Community.
We also have the support of Barnsley Residential Landlords Association, Cornwall Residential Landlords Association & The West Country Landlords Association.

So are UK councils going to continue to rehouse habitually troublesome tenants, as they have done for the past 10 years, without assisting the landlord or agent?
Or are they going to follow Wigan’s example and now tell them “Yes, we do have a duty to house you but the majority of our suggested landlords are Landlord Referencing Members; so your behaviour is likely to inhibit you getting a property“…?

We wholeheartedly believe that Landlord Referencing doesn’t just give council’s a great opportunity to meet their legislative obligations to house people but is also pro-actively educating these tenants that their continual bad behaviour, non-payment of rents & damaging of property will simply result in them not getting a property with any landlord referencing members.

Now is the time to “draw a line in the sand” and we urge all UK councils to consider joining our system.

At Landlord Referencing we believe that landlords, letting agents, councils, accreditations AND the government should be concentrating on the duty of care they have to the millions of existing good tenants right across the country who also want good neighbours, rather than rewarding the habitually bad tenants with homes that could be given to people and families who actually deserve these properties; which we all know are currently in very high demand.

Just as we saw in August of last year after the wave of rioting, looting and arson; the worst offenders who were found guilty of participating in these riots we’re legally evicted from council owned properties.

Eviction Proposals Sharpened Up After Riots

Ministers back councils over evicting rioters

First rioter given eviction notice

So, we would like to know what the difference is between the rioters of 2011 and the serial, professional bad tenants; who go from one property to another, intentionally & wilfully destroying the landlords property and/or without any intention of paying any rent?

Which inevitably leaves the landlord or letting agent in thousands of pounds worth of debt and more often than not it also affects the landlords relationship with their existing good tenants.

It would be a shame if the very same councils who didn’t want these rioters as tenants chose to think that it was fine by palming them onto us in the private rental sector.

United we stand, divided we fall.

 

  • Do you take local authority recommended tenants?

  • Do they support Landlord Referencing Services?

  • Are you continually taking another landlords bad tenant so that the council does not have a massive homeless problem in its area?


We firmly believe the line in the sand is to BEHAVE YOURSELF!
Simply; Step over that line and don’t get a home.

Agree with what we have to say?
Then join our pro-active community of landlords and agents ABSOLUTELY FREE here.

Paul Barrett said:

Doesn’t the problem still exist in that even if a tenant promises to behave themselves to persuade a LL to take them on despite their bad LRS reference; is the LL likely to take them on?

Ans

NO.

How will councils now mug LL to take their homeless now that LRS is becoming a force to be reckoned with.

I think the only way is for councils to either insure the LL for any losses that occur caused by their claimant or to pay for insurance for the LL to cover his exposure to these tenants.

If the councils don’t and the LL refuses to take these bad tenants what will happen?

The councils will have to spend even more money on B & B.

Hardly a good financial solution.

I think the LRS service is at last proving its worth against wrongun tenants and councils will have to come up with some persuasive solutions to persuade LL to take their claimants!

There are more than enough good tenants out there not to bother with these dregs.

Invest in some park benches!

05/03/2012
10:18 am
Paul Routledge
Admin
Forum Posts: 3418
Member Since:
20/05/2011
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Is there a possibility that LRS could ascertain ALL the evictions that are carried out and make such lists available to LRS users.

Clearly these evictees will be looking to mug some other poor landlord and it would be very useful if we could see a list of all the evictions carried out in the UK.

 

Paul it is a great idea,

Could you be the guy that help us to collate them from the courts across the land and then we could also contact the Last Landlord and get them to join us.Laugh 

05/03/2012
12:52 pm
PaulBarrett
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Yessssssssssssssss!!!!

Sorry Paul life's too short to sit on a phone all day doing such collation!

It surely cannot be beyond the wit of man to obtain this info which should be available in the public domain.

I don't know how such court decisions are notified;  but there must be a website that HMCS have where one could find all the evictions.

Mind you we are talking about govt here and they are notoriously incompetent in sharing info which should be in the public domain.

No doubt some jobsworth will cite DPA and you'd have to end up submitting FOI requests.

But ascertaining such lists would enable you to contact these victim LL to sign up to your service.

They will be obviously extremely motivated to join once they know about you!

06/03/2012
11:13 am
LouisVW4
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12/10/2011
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This issue is getting legs… has anyone come across TenantID from Callcredit?

TenantID is owned by Callcredit and they claim their data is growing fast. They offer the behaviour history of a tenant which I guess they would get from payment history, and are working with some of the largest companies in the UK, including support from leading tenant Vetters.

They are currently re-launching TenantID and hope to become a market leader in this field, working with not only landlords, agencies and tenant Vetters but are also looking at working with key housing associations, local government and various other data providers to give their members the information they need.

Sounds like a combination of LRS and the Experian offer. Importantly, it is a mainstream credit reference agency getting in on the act, which can only lend credibility to what LRS is doing, and benefit the private rental market by providing an additional barrier to bad tenants obtaining accommodation.

06/03/2012
12:13 pm
Paul Routledge
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Forum Posts: 3418
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20/05/2011
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Hi All,

Yeah I think we all know them; from when Lorna Rose started out as tenantvet and then moved on very quickly because of data protection issues.
She then went and started up TenantID and took on a fellow called Gary Henderson.
They have continued to bad mouth and bad blog us for years, it's become almost a sport to them (!), until recently when they had no-where to go and offered themselves for sale to all of the three credit referencing agencies.
Callcredit where the ones who bought them for an undisclosed amount ( not alot I would imagine) without notifying their members and then transferred all the data into callcredit.
I received lots of texts from Gary Henderson who said that he had “beaten us” because callcredit were going to take over this market of which Landlord Referenecing have always been the front runner.
Unfortunately for them this hasn't happened, because lifestyle referencing is not about running a modern blacklist; lifestyle referencing is about passion within a community of professionals with the same interests and values. 
Our members understand why it needs to be a passion rather than a business, for the community of landlords and letting agents to work togheter and this is why we have NOT sold out or sold our members out.

There are compliant issues with what is going on across the road and again I leave this post here to assure our members that we will not get involved in this sort of behaviour.
Everything we do they copy us, every statement we make they use and I suppose that's some form of flattery!

They have truly spent two years looking at the back of our head and actually I wonder whether this post is just another feeble attempt to get their face in front of the ever growing army that are constantly joining Landlord Referencing.
Who knows?
But the most flattering thing for us at landlord referencing is that in the two years we have been trading we have never changed our mandate, we have never charged our members & we have never sold out for the fast buck. The LRS team has just continued to work along the same tracks with which we set out on and will do so for as long as I am in charge and I have my fantastic team with me.

We will not tear this post down, like they would wish us to, we will leave it hear to show that there is an alternative; us at LandlordReferencing.co.uk – a personal 1-2-1 networking company who is transparent and on the phone day and night for its members or a corporate giant who is in it for the quick quid.

Our members choose where they want to be, as our thousands and thousands of members have done for the past two years. 

In summary we have relied on people seeing through our competitors smoke and mirrors and EVERY day we grow larger; which can only say that our competitors shouldn't think that the public are as stupid as they think! 

06/03/2012
12:44 pm
Sharon
Guest
Guests

Having already endorsed what Landlord References are trying to achieve (and seem to be doing rather well too) I'm not about to change my mind.

However, from  a responsible freeholder and resident management company perspective I have to express concerns that you are not engaging with the leasehold sector on this.

As freeholders we cannot prevent crap landlords from purchasing a flat on our block because the covenants to sublet are continually ignored. This ignoring of said covenant continues long after the first tenant is placed.

I manage (with the 'assistance' of a managing agent) a block of 22 flats, 18 of which are sublet.

Some of these landlords are 'rogue' and have 'rogue' tenants to match and the majority of them are on benefits of some description.

However, as has been previously noted on this forum, councils emain under a statutory duty to house the homeless and but the problem is not so much the homeless perse but the fact that landlords who operate under the radar will sieze the opportunity to house bad tenant which will create yet more problems for those of use who manage blocks of flats.

Last week I had a meeting with the housing department of my local council, that of the London Borough of Waltham Forest. This was primarily to discuss the issue of no checks being carried out by the council on whether landlords who offer their properties to them are suitable to be operating as such. Such checks are carried out under private sector leasing (not always effectively though because councils rely on managing agents to check on their behalf) but there are no checks made on a landlord who wanders into an unlicenced an unregulated letting agent and says, 'I've got a property and I'll take benefit tenants'.

I don't yet know how successful my meeting has been but I have passed over certain information they have asked for and they have agreed to look at my block to establish a full picture.

As I said before, I am impressed with the passion and drive behind this service and whilst we will end up with a lot of landlords being protected from bad tenants (and rightly so) we will still have unknown quantities of 'rogue' landlords and letting agents that will remain 'under the radar' simply because they don't want to be seen!

06/03/2012
12:56 pm
Paul Routledge
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Forum Posts: 3418
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Hi Sharon,

I am really interested in getting a scheme together that will address this problem and I cant agree with you more. One bad landlord allowing one bad tenant into a good block can bring the whole thing down.

The problem is I just don,t have the time to undertake such a task. If their is someone who wishes to work and fund a scheme that will do this I am happy to fly it under our banner and help in anyway possible. The real problem is that you need to find someone with time, money and enough tenacity and passion to get the job done and unfortunately their are not to many other daft blokes like me aroundLaugh

06/03/2012
1:07 pm
Sharon
Guest
Guests

Hi Paul,
That was a rapid response! 🙂

Unfortunately I don't have the money to do it myself though I have the other three qualities!

I can only imagine how busy you must be so I do hope that my local council will live up to what I thought was a very productive meeting.

Regards

 

Sharon

06/03/2012
1:23 pm
Paul Routledge
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Forum Posts: 3418
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20/05/2011
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I was waiting to pounce lolLaugh

 

I will take a look at the firms coffers then and see what we have left to invest. We are doing all the buy to let shows this year so getting expensive but the sponsorships are doing quite well so lets see if we have a bit left over, maybe the Government will support us In cleaning this area up I will get Samii too Tweet Grant Shapps as he follows her ..you never know!. anyone else can follow us – Samii  is @Landlordref  I am @Paul_Rout and deano’s is @Dean_lrs and keep in the loop. we also send out tenant alert notification out to our followers 

06/03/2012
2:10 pm
TenantIDiot
Guest
Guests

cannot comment on the landlord referencing company – never used it.

would not recommend using TenantID or Callcredit – it left a nasty taste in ones mouth when discovering they had sold all of my sensitive data on without notifying me properly – in the end their constant cold calling from their call center in India made me terminate my subscription.

i have also heard along the grapevine about their underhand and malicious tactics.

it is very hard to find a company nowadays that is completely transparent and honest. Yell 

06/03/2012
3:39 pm
Ian
Guest
Guests

As an avid subscriber to Property118's newsletter and blogs, after reading this:
http://www.property118.com/ind…..e/25268/ 

I've become quite addicted to finding out what all the big shots website traffic rankings are lately.
( http://www.alexa.com/toolbar

 

Can anyone shed any light on the matter?

 

06/03/2012
4:18 pm
Paul Routledge
Admin
Forum Posts: 3418
Member Since:
20/05/2011
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TenantIDiot said:

cannot comment on the landlord referencing company – never used it.

would not recommend using TenantID or Callcredit – it left a nasty taste in ones mouth when discovering they had sold all of my sensitive data on without notifying me properly – in the end their constant cold calling from their call center in India made me terminate my subscription.

i have also heard along the grapevine about their underhand and malicious tactics.

it is very hard to find a company nowadays that is completely transparent and honest. Yell 

Hi,

Give us a try I am sure you will be very happy 1000's already are as you will see from our testimonials /reviews-2/ . we are like one big family that cares for one another and we are very – WYSIWYG – you can call me for a chat and pop in for tea. 

07/03/2012
10:03 am
Sally Pritchard
Guest
Guests

Hi Paul,

 

I don't think Louise meant any malice with mentioning the other mob, although I can understand why he touches a nerve,  but  reading his post he does obviously have a very good insight to what they are doing and I must say they do seem to have lots of relaunches. Maybe they should just try and get it right in the first place anyway fear not Baldrick I think that we all see that others follow where you lead in this market and you and your team are doing a fantastic job.

07/03/2012
11:50 am
Sharon Carmichael
Guest
Guests

I am with Sally, I dont think Lewis meant to be malicious however, again, like Sally, I can understand why, in view of the past history, why just the mention of “that company” makes you growl.  I saw the fiasco you had with them over ghost profiling on property tribes and lying about you and LRS and, even recently there was a post on this site which was so obviously “that woman from that company” but I think Lewis has really outlined for us all what has happened when the words “re-launch” are used which to me shows that they still dont know what they do so just keep coming up with ideas, all of which seem to have come from your site anyway!!!

Your recent post on British Banks just goes to show what great foresight you guys have and I am really looking forward to meeting you at the Barbican next week but this topic is not about this, this topic is about Councils working with us all to stop bad tenants and keeping our properties safer with you guys and not cheap ineffective imitations – Back on topic please.

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