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What notice do I serve on my tenant from HELL !
04/07/2013
11:14 am
PaulBarrett
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Forum Posts: 2581
Member Since:
12/10/2011
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Hi Peter,

Didn't you say that the tenant owes you over £15K?

If this is the case she'll be in over 8 weeks of arrears meaning that a section 8 could be served.

 

Helen

Hi Helen …
It doesn't seem to matter to the courts how much she owes us they don't seem to care about that.
I've been trying to get advice from all different kinds of solicitors who give you a half hour free etc, I contacted http://www.landlordadvice.co.uk/ and http://www.helpland.co.uk/ who claim to specialize in evictions, gave them both all my details and they haven't even got back to me.
I went to see a solicitor last Friday and he quoted me a lot of money saying he would do this and that and when I emailed him on the Sunday evening asking for a breakdown of his costs and what exactly he was going to do for me he sent back a client care letter (in email) with his charges and services he was going to provide.
The services he was going to provide changed somewhat from everything he said he was going to do when I was in his office but his costs stayed the same and his breakdown in his fees totally threw me off balance when he said the hourly rate for his junior would be £175 an hour plus Vat and the other solicitor who would be sort of checking his work and making sure everything was done properly would be costing me £275 and hour plus Vat …. I couldn't believe it.
These people see your desperate and in a lot of trouble and the want to take all you've got even if you have nothing. I cant afford that its criminal.

They said they would issue her with a section 8 under ground 1 and also a section 21. She is on a periodic tenancy.
To be honest I don't know what I have to serve her, the law is so difficult and seems to be organic because nobody seems to know and I get different advice from different solicitors so who is right ???

I just don't know what to serve her nobody will tell me.
Thanks anyway.

Go to property tribes
There is a S 21 calculator there
Use it and that is it.
Hand one in person to her or by hand post to her and get 2 others delivered by normal post but get cert of posting from 2 different PO
S21 are easy.
You just go form when the AST commenced and not from when rent is paid.
Yes for £200000 i can see why you want to fight it!
But what would happen if the property was repossessed and then you came up with all the mortgage payments and could continue with the mortgage payments!?
I would stop the mortgage payments; let the lender do the legal work and then once she's out; say that you can now repay all the arrears payments if they lift the repossession as you you have a 'friend' who will help you.
You can still issue the S21 and let the lender do all the legal work.
Don't tell them you have it in an account or they'll have it off you.
The lender would far prefer you to be back in the property paying it than them have to sell etc.
After all you are a good payer as you have been paying for 2 places at the same time.
Not many of us could do that!!
Cert of posting is FREE as afar as I am aware
Do NOT use recorded or registered post delivery.
You could also use the Norgen principle to prevent the property being sold as you will have a secret stash of monies to catch up on the arrears.
Why don't you have a chat with Ben R Lewis.
He knows his stuff.
Perhaps pay him as a consultant as he knows far more than the stupid solicitors you are using.
Based on his posts; there is not a lot he won't know about the situation you are in!!
Do you know anyone who could buy your property for the outstanding mortgage debt; you give them the deposit on the quiet!
Once property bought then your associate puts a voluntary charge on the property for say £4000000.
That will probably be its value in about 20 years
Also put it down as a joint charge for someone younger than you so when it is sold the full value goes to the other creditor.
It would be sold when you are no longer around as that is the only way the other creditor would be able to get the money owed!

04/07/2013
11:42 am
desperate_landlord
Guest

Hi Peter,

Didn't you say that the tenant owes you over £15K?

If this is the case she'll be in over 8 weeks of arrears meaning that a section 8 could be served.

 

Helen

Hi Helen …
It doesn't seem to matter to the courts how much she owes us they don't seem to care about that.
I've been trying to get advice from all different kinds of solicitors who give you a half hour free etc, I contacted http://www.landlordadvice.co.uk/ and http://www.helpland.co.uk/ who claim to specialize in evictions, gave them both all my details and they haven't even got back to me.
I went to see a solicitor last Friday and he quoted me a lot of money saying he would do this and that and when I emailed him on the Sunday evening asking for a breakdown of his costs and what exactly he was going to do for me he sent back a client care letter (in email) with his charges and services he was going to provide.
The services he was going to provide changed somewhat from everything he said he was going to do when I was in his office but his costs stayed the same and his breakdown in his fees totally threw me off balance when he said the hourly rate for his junior would be £175 an hour plus Vat and the other solicitor who would be sort of checking his work and making sure everything was done properly would be costing me £275 and hour plus Vat …. I couldn't believe it.
These people see your desperate and in a lot of trouble and the want to take all you've got even if you have nothing. I cant afford that its criminal.

They said they would issue her with a section 8 under ground 1 and also a section 21. She is on a periodic tenancy.
To be honest I don't know what I have to serve her, the law is so difficult and seems to be organic because nobody seems to know and I get different advice from different solicitors so who is right ???

I just don't know what to serve her nobody will tell me.
Thanks anyway.

Go to property tribes
There is a S 21 calculator there
Use it and that is it.
Hand one in person to her or by hand post to her and get 2 others delivered by normal post but get cert of posting from 2 different PO
S21 are easy.
You just go form when the AST commenced and not from when rent is paid.
Yes for £200000 i can see why you want to fight it!
But what would happen if the property was repossessed and then you came up with all the mortgage payments and could continue with the mortgage payments!?
I would stop the mortgage payments; let the lender do the legal work and then once she's out; say that you can now repay all the arrears payments if they lift the repossession as you you have a 'friend' who will help you.
You can still issue the S21 and let the lender do all the legal work.
Don't tell them you have it in an account or they'll have it off you.
The lender would far prefer you to be back in the property paying it than them have to sell etc.
After all you are a good payer as you have been paying for 2 places at the same time.
Not many of us could do that!!
Cert of posting is FREE as afar as I am aware
Do NOT use recorded or registered post delivery.

Thanks Paul
Are you sure I dont need to issue her with a section 8 under ground 1 like that solicitor told me ?
I havent got a clue and as I said before everybody tells me different things.

She got her solicitor to send a surveyor up to my house with a view to suing me using the housing disrepair protocol but that letter was sent on 4th November 2011 and the survey and report completed in December 2011 whether they would use this as an argument against owing rent or whether that is out of date I dont know. Obviously she got legal aid for that and its also a load of bo**ocks to try and get me to change my mind about evicting her or getting money out of us.

So all I need is a section 21 ???

Thank you !

04/07/2013
12:25 pm
Mary Latham
Member
Forum Posts: 1731
Member Since:
17/05/2012
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Serve a Section 21 asking for Possession on the expiry of the day before the next tenancy period that begins 2 clear months from the date of the Notice. For example if the tenancy began on the 20th of the month 19th of each month is the last day of the tenancy period.

 

Using a "savings clause" like this will prevent problems with Section 21 Notices

 

"After (put in date Possession is required) or, if this notice would otherwise be ineffective, after the date being the earliest date not earlier than two months after the date of service of this notice when shall expire a period of the assured shorthold tenancy”

 

Serve it by post at 2 separate post offices with proof of posting or post it through the door.  Either way get a witness statement to say that the witness read the Notice and noted that it was a Section 21 Notice addressed to (name of tenant) at 0000 hrs on date

 

Also Serve a Section 8 Notice on Grounds 8, 10 and 11.  With a witness statement as above.

 

The most cost effective way to get advice and all the forms that you need is to join the National Landlords Association http://www.landlords.org.uk for less than £100 a year they will give you the forms and talk you through the process step by step.

 

I am really sorry to hear that this is still going on its just crazy.

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04/07/2013
12:45 pm
Barbara Chabeaux Pro
Guest

Blimey – who'd be a landlord after reading this..

 

via the Landlord Referencing Services Facebook Page

04/07/2013
12:52 pm
PaulBarrett
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Forum Posts: 2581
Member Since:
12/10/2011
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There you go Mary has just saved you a load of expensive fees.

You won't go wrong taking note of what she states and I'm sure she will assist as things progess on your case.

A successful conclusion might warrant a contribution to a charity of her choice; as I know she is that sort of person!!

04/07/2013
1:09 pm
penelopepitstop
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Forum Posts: 89
Member Since:
27/06/2013
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Hi Desperate,

As the AST is now periodic, you need a Section S21(4)(a).

This must give the tenant at least 2 month's notice. It has to expire the last day of a period of the AST, ie if the AST start date was the 2nd of the month, you would have to serve it on 1st of the month.

Always take an independent witness with you when you are serving the Section 21 who will write a statement stating that the Section 21 has been served through the letterbox of the tenanted property. Take photos date and timed stamped also. The notice is deemed to have been served the next working day when posted through the letterbox.

Once the notice has expireed you need to fill in and send to the Court a Form N5b (Claim form for possession of property). You can do this the day after the Section 21 has expired and then you can send the papers to Court.

About two weeks later you'll receive a document form the Court entitled the Notice of Issue. This gives you the time the tenant has to file a defence. The only valid defence is that there is a defect in your Section 21 (ie wrong dates) or the tenant denies receiving the notice. (which you can prove has been served with your witness).

Once you have obtained an Order for Possession the tenant will be given a date to leave the property. The tenant has until midnight on that date to vacate the property. After that time if then tenant refuses to move, you cannot enter and gain possession until you have instructed bailiffs.

To instruct bailiffs and gain possession you will need a form N325.

You will get this scum out of your property and your life!!

 

 

04/07/2013
1:11 pm
penelopepitstop
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Forum Posts: 89
Member Since:
27/06/2013
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Just seen Mary's comments after posting mine Laugh

04/07/2013
1:26 pm
David Price
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12/10/2011
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penelopepitstop said

To instruct bailiffs and gain possession you will need a form N325.
 

If there are any Bailiffs still willing to act after the incident in Brixton.

04/07/2013
2:30 pm
Katherine
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Forum Posts: 65
Member Since:
28/11/2012
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In our area it is possible to book police assistance or make them aware so they are available if required. Better safe than sorry.

 

 

04/07/2013
5:09 pm
penelopepitstop
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Forum Posts: 89
Member Since:
27/06/2013
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If the tenant refuses to move while the bailiffs are there, as Katherine says, the Police need to be called and they will provide assistance in order for the tenant to be removed.

04/07/2013
5:55 pm
Amy
Guest

I did A little survey – only a small one, Smileamongst incidental landlords that i know, most have been bitten. The rotten tenants go for them because they know they are new. One had the council on his back because his tenant were upsetting the neighbours and cannot get them out. He said he is going to give the property back. I already know two who have done the same. Last week a friend told me he has told his tenants, who are not paying rent and trashed the place that the mortgage company can have them. I wonder how much of this is going on? How do the mortgage companies feel and will they get into the battle and ask that the laws and judges be sorted out? 

04/07/2013
8:23 pm
Katherine
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Amy, I must agree that new landlords are more likely to get caught. I was very conscious of this when we initially started to self manage. Yes we got caught and you learn by your mistakes. Isn't that life!

At the moment all our tenants are great even the one we served notice to who is a long standing tenant . He is getting his house in order and will  remain a goodish tenant. Some just need a little more management. But some are just tenants from hell and that's why we need LRS.

My advise to new landlords is to employ a good letting agent.

04/07/2013
9:09 pm
Mary Latham
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Forum Posts: 1731
Member Since:
17/05/2012
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Amy said
I did A little survey – only a small one, Smileamongst incidental landlords that i know, most have been bitten. The rotten tenants go for them because they know they are new. One had the council on his back because his tenant were upsetting the neighbours and cannot get them out. He said he is going to give the property back. I already know two who have done the same. Last week a friend told me he has told his tenants, who are not paying rent and trashed the place that the mortgage company can have them. I wonder how much of this is going on? How do the mortgage companies feel and will they get into the battle and ask that the laws and judges be sorted out? 

Amy if this is becoming common we will see lenders tightening up their criteria and new landlords will struggle to get funding.  A new landlord should join a landlords association like National Landlords Association for £100 a year they will be given all the documents, advice, information and support they need to avoid mistakes – telling new tenants that you are a member of the largest landlords association in the country makes them aware that you are not green just because you are new.  Telling those tenants that you are also a member of LRS and will be sharing your experience of them – good or bad – will also put off those who are planning to take you for a ride.

 

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets
04/07/2013
9:09 pm
desperate_landlord
Guest

Thanks everybody and especially thanks to Mary Latham, I really appreciate your help Mary.

 

I’ve had the same advice before but then having been told so many different ways to do it I didn’t believe any of them and was sure I would be making a mistake whichever method I used having failed twice already with thousands of pounds in costs being awarded against us.

I trust you though and will definitely go that method. Does giving her the section 8 allow me to take her to court after the two weeks is up and will the fact that she claims disrepair (that’s a laugh, and a lie) give her an argument over arrears ?

I’ve really had enough of it all and we just keep getting deeper and deeper into debt while this F. *^&**% . ?! animal,  I cant describe her on here you wont print it, is using the system and her nasty legal aid barrister and a solicitor to cause us as much misery and as much financial distress as possible, lives there for free with all her dirty friends destroying our once beautiful home.

 

I can’t think now I’ve been searching the internet most of the day (another day) and it just confuses me even more. Why is it so hard to evict this kind of trash who comes into this country to abuse our system and get everything for free while I’ve worked hard all my life right up until 60 and I’m unable to work now because of lung disease?

I don’t get a single penny and I’ve never asked for benefits in my life before, we live on my wife’s earnings as a school dinner lady, my tenant pays her housekeepers nearly twice as much as my wife earns, plus FREE accommodation I might add.

 

This woman has taken everything we’ve worked hard for and saved up so we wouldn’t be reliant on any government handouts and all that hard work has been for nothing, just for a Russian criminal to come into this country and take it all …. She’ll never have to pay a penny and will get all the legal aid she wants to make sure she doesn’t pay a f***ing single penny !

Thanks Mary …

http://www.hackneycouncil.co.u…..apers.html

04/07/2013
9:22 pm
Mary Latham
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Forum Posts: 1731
Member Since:
17/05/2012
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Yes you can ask the Court to hear the case after two weeks when using Ground 8.  Unfortunately the tenant has the legal right to defend (Yes I know what you are thinking and I don't  blame you at all) and this is why Section 8 is such a pain but we are just giving her hassle at this point and you don't need to pay for legal representation just go to court and state your case, if you have photographs or better still an Inventory of the property that she moved into you stand a good chance – the Judge on the day may be fair you never know – if he is not and you don't get Possession you still have your Section 21 ticking away and when you serve the Notice correctly as you will, you will get Possession without her being able to defend it.

 

Your story makes me sad and mad, I am sick and tired of decent people being treated so badly in the legal system that was meant to defend good tenants against bad landlords not the other way around.

If you need to talk about this please ask Paul Routledge for my mobile phone number I will be around on Saturday afternoon and I am happy to talk this through or just give you a pair of ears to bash. You are not alone but I imagine that you must feel that you are at the moment, keep fighting do not give her the power to beat you.  On the bright side the property market seems to be recovering and your property will have increased in value when you get it back – I hope that this will cover some of your losses.

 

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

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04/07/2013
9:25 pm
Mary Latham
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Forum Posts: 1731
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17/05/2012
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PS you mustn't use any of those *#+% words if you call me "Oim a good girl Oi am".

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04/07/2013
9:48 pm
Katherine
Member
Forum Posts: 65
Member Since:
28/11/2012
Offline

Mary is definitely a good girl and gives lots of good advice. Being serious joining and informing tenants that you are a member of NLA will  send some prospective tenants running. I must download the logo and use it.

We always give prospective tenants a copy of our referencing procedures its amazing how many soon loose interest.

Many thanks to all the people especially Mary and Paul for their help and advice.

05/07/2013
11:14 am
matt66uk
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Forum Posts: 119
Member Since:
03/08/2012
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Instead of trying to evict her for rent arrears can you not try and just ask for the property back as you need to live in it and use your health problem as a reason.

Claim the money back as a seperate issue.

05/07/2013
11:34 am
Patricia A
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Forum Posts: 796
Member Since:
12/06/2012
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matt66uk said
Instead of trying to evict her for rent arrears can you not try and just ask for the property back as you need to live in it and use your health problem as a reason.

Claim the money back as a seperate issue.

 

 

Matt 66  

Sometimes the simple ways work best.  Depends on the tenant and what problems they have. 

Mary Latham said

Amy said
I did A little survey – only a small one, Smileamongst incidental landlords that i know, most have been bitten. The rotten tenants go for them because they know they are new. One had the council on his back because his tenant were upsetting the neighbours and cannot get them out. He said he is going to give the property back. I already know two who have done the same. Last week a friend told me he has told his tenants, who are not paying rent and trashed the place that the mortgage company can have them. I wonder how much of this is going on? How do the mortgage companies feel and will they get into the battle and ask that the laws and judges be sorted out? 

Amy if this is becoming common we will see lenders tightening up their criteria and new landlords will struggle to get funding.  A new landlord should join a landlords association like National Landlords Association for £100 a year they will be given all the documents, advice, information and support they need to avoid mistakes – tell new tenants that you are a member of the largest landlords association in the country makes them aware that you are not green just because you are new.  Telling those tenants that you are also a member of LRS and will be sharing your experience of them – good or bad – will also put of those who are planning to take you for a ride.

 

Follow me on Twitter@landlordtweets

Amy and Mary

 

I had an email from old friends that i have not heard from in a long time . They went abroad and decided to stay out there and wanted to sell the UK rented house. The tenants will not move. After consulting a solicitor they were told they hadn't done the paper work right.  They did sums and decided that- if it was going to be a fight and cost more to pay solicitors and court fees  than his deposit cost on the house its cheaper to just walk away. 

Its surprising how many would be tenants walk away when they see the LRS and NLA  fence that i use Wink

My latest beef is tenants that tell you they do not smoke and then turn out to be chain smokers and the whole place has to be re painted etc when they vacate . The smell gets in all the soft furnishings .  When a tenant comes in now smelling scrubbed and an overload aftershave/ perfume i start getting suspicious Smile The cost of replacing soft furnishings is usually more than the deposit .

05/07/2013
12:47 pm
desperate_landlord
Guest

Thanks again Mary I might take you up on that phone call because I’m sick of talking to so called professionals who don’t seem to know or keep up with the laws, and …. all their advice varies.

The thing is I paid a solicitor to check out my first lot of paperwork before I submitted it into court, he said everything was OK even the dates I put on the notice I served her when I pointed out the difference in rent due and contract dates, that ended up costing us over 8K in court costs and I’m still fighting to get her out.

 

Matt66uk …. I’ve been trying to get my house back for over two years now and she’s told us she’ll fight until the last breath in her body to stay in there she’s not going to leave if I ask her, she knows she wont get another place anywhere near as good as ours and she’s determined not to move out. She also warned me and my wife that we need to be careful because we don’t know the people she knows ??? I suppose she meant that double murderer and his minders she done all her business with in property and all the other things they used to get up to. He was also a people trafficker, brothel runner and arranged marriages for prostitutes from Russia coming into this country so they could ply their trade for him and a host of other things.

If you look at http://www.hackneycouncil.co.uk/ I’ve put a copy of the Romford Recorder with me outside the house trying to get possession and that was on the 4th May 2012.

She is the nastiest, evilest woman I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across in my life. Wherever she goes she will take it over, destroy it and give the landlord a lot of trouble and it will cost them a fortune.

She’d rather we died a nasty death so she could stay in there longer than give it up.

 

I had an operation on the 13th December 2012 to drain fluid in my lung, take samples and do exploratory work because they thought I had Mesothelioma. I was very ill when I came out on the 20th December. I couldn’t even walk up one flight of stairs to bed at night without having to stop at the top landing to get my breath back and then sit on the edge of the bed for a good few minutes to get myself breathing again before I could lie down.

 

The next hearing was on the 22nd January 2013 and no matter how ill I was I wasn’t going to miss it. I struggled to get my paperwork to her solicitor which had to be in by a certain date explaining the difficulties I was having and sent him a copy of my release notes from St Bartholomew’s Hospital so they knew how ill I was.

 

Not only did her barrister turn up but so did the solicitor and when my case was thrown out because I hadn’t shown her the deposit protection ‘certificate’ within 30 days the first thing out of the barrister’s mouth was ‘what about the costs sir?’

They done all they could to get me to pay the costs even though she was on legal aid, they knew how ill I was, they knew I don’t get anything from the government and they know she’s not paying rent and that I’m skint and in debt.

I’m still waiting to find out how much that is costing because I have to pay those costs. I just stormed out the court but my wife said the barrister jumped and put her hands in the air when the costs were awarded against us.

Click on the links (Barrister and her costs ) on main page at http://www.hackneycouncil.co.uk/

No, she’s a nasty piece of **** and so is her ‘left wing’ barrister and her solicitor.

 

Thanks again everybody, I joined the NLA and I've learnt a lot already.

If Paul emails me Mary’s mobile number I’ll give her a call even if its just to thank her ….

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