I am alright Jack, pull the ladder up. | Discuss

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I am alright Jack, pull the ladder up.
02/01/2012
11:08 am
Paul Routledge
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20/05/2011
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If you ever meet an old member of http://www.landlordreferencin.co.uk are to be the first authority in their region to introduce police screening of new tenants in a bid to weed out convicted trouble makers. 

 

So, if you are a Local Authority or a Social Housing provider, you have the full support of both the Government and the police in making sure that you do not get habitually bad tenants who have criminal records and are constant trouble makers turning decent neighbourhoods into ghettos without recourse.

 

So, where does it leave the rest of us?  I will tell you where – it leaves every other man, woman and Jack of us whether owners or tenants at the mercy of being able to communicate with one another to pass on information about these tenants via lifestyle tenant referencing to stop them getting in to our communities and the only way that this can be done in this country today is via legitimate and legal a lifestyle referencing and there is only one legitimate, legal and totally safe lifestyle referencing company with the membership and database to make a difference and that is http://www.landlordreferencing.co.uk.

 

With the current austerity measures and migration of tenants now coupled with Local Authorities refusing tenure to these type of people, they will only have one place to go and that will be into the private rental sector and that is you and me, so I ask, neigh, beg, that everybody who is either in rented property, a landlord or a letting agent letting out property tell others about LandlordReferencing.co.uk and unite us all this year to making a HUGE difference in changing the structure whereby we are constantly on the front line trying to deal with these type of people without Local Authority and Police support.

 

http://www.landlordreferencing.co.uk really is safety in numbers – the more than join – the stronger the network – the stronger the network – the smaller the place the bad tenants have to hide.  Tell us what you think in this blog and more importantly send this link to everyone you know and get them to join you and I so that this year we do not have to suffer our properties being destroyed, rents being squandered elsewhere, our good tenants threatened.

I wish you all a happy new year.

Paul

02/01/2012
12:19 pm
Cedric
Golders Green
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Thank you Paul for drawing all of this to your members attention - As a newish member I can say that your continued vigilance is inspring and truly appreciated.  The article about Cannock Council is very disturbing - I have to say I am not too sure where that is but if that system as to be rolled out across the country all private landlords and letting agents would have a major potential problem arriving on their doorstep.

 

Have a Happy New Year to you and your staff.  Long may your service continue and flourish !!!

02/01/2012
1:09 pm
mary latham
Guest
Guests

In my article here

http://www.property118.com/ind.....more-19819

I warn landlords about the increasing risk of taking on tenants with anti social behaviour.  I know that many landlords are concerned about the decrease in LHA this year and of course this is an important issue but for me the BIG issue is tenant who choose not to pay their rent wether they are on LHA or not and tenants who choose to behave in a way that makes those who live around them unhappy and insecure.  This site is the answer to this big problem and, as I said on the thread above I tell every landlord that I meet to join because it is only when we are all contributing that we are keeping ourselves and each other safe from badly behaved tenants

02/01/2012
1:39 pm
Paul Routledge
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Hi Mary & Cedric,

The problem is that some landlords think that because they have a good tenant now and they don't need to tenant reference immediately they need not join the site. We have a big task ahead convincing them that the site (with all the other stuff that it offers) is about a community uniting together to work with one another to show the bad guys that we will not be treated like crap just because we bear the name "landlord". 

I think, like any sucsessful network, it is about numbers, whether it be pro-active or reactive, it is about being joined up and active as a member that sends a clear message to everyone to include bad tenants and government bodies and 200,000 members versus 20,000 will make a much bigger statement and will even give us a chance of getting laws redressed as we go to protect us all.  

Thanks both for spreading the word I think we are in for a great year of making sure private landlords are not local authority fodder when it comes to getting rid of their rubbish tenants and not telling the private sector about them

 

Paul

03/01/2012
8:38 am
Sharon
Guest
Guests

Hi Paul,

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle. I have a very, very long story but to cut it short, it took  4 years to take over the management then the freehold of our block of 22 flats. We were forced to do this because our freeholder was found to be in jail for Customs and Excise fraud and the managing agents (his daughters) insisted the block was nothing to do with them. They completely removed themselves from the equation by getting struck off at Companies House by not filing, the only penalty to them being whatever CH fined for failing to file.

When we finally succeeded in first securing a managing agent, then the freehold, none of our landlords had permission to sublet, simply because there was no one to seek permission from. Our lease requires such permission to be sought. Not only can we not get our landlords to seek retrospective permission, we can't get new ones to get permission either as the covenants to sublet are continuing to be ignored by the conveyancers.

Currently we have a tenant on site who is nothing short of a sociopath. The subletting covenants were again ignored and a combination of her agressive and malicious behaviour and her landlords total failure to either serve an eviction notice for arrears (which he confirms she is in) and control the number of people she appears to have living in her flat has resulted in an absolute nightmare for the owner-occupiers in the flat below (who are a couple of pensioners in their eighties).

We now have to go for forfeiture of the lease, which is not an overnight process.

I have asked my local authority why they consider it acceptable to keep pushing benefit tenants into the private sector with no attempt to check on the suitability of the landlord to be operating as such, let alone whether such a tenant is fit to be left to her own devices. This particular tenant alledges she had no choice but to take the property when she was offered it. She also needs the kind of help that only social services can provide.  I am not a social worker. I belive she may be on a rent deposit scheme but because we don't get any tenant information I have to make an educated guess.  Additionally, when tenants are placed here on Private Sector Leasing, the local authorities rely on private sector agents to ensure that firstly the landlord has the correct mortgage to sublet and also has the permission of the freeholder. I don't now about the former but I can certainly state that the latter is ignored, leaving us with the ludicrous situation of landlords who don't have freeholder permission to sublet handing over their properties to the council (who have full nomination rights and the property for a three to five year period) who also don't check whether freeholder permission has been granted.

I've already had to use legislation to get one anti-social tenant under a licence removed and whilst I was researching how to do this, I also found that not only did the council not need to know about our management structure, but we could have more than one authority involved in this particular scheme as they have reciprocal arrangements for sharing property when a borough runs out.

Add to this the fact that a tenant will not voluntary remove themselves if they want the local authority to re-house them because if they do they will be deemed to have made themselves deliberately homeless, then our neighbours nightmare is set to continue, whilst I try to wrest the lease away a landlord who, had the subletting covenants not been ignored, would likely not have been given permission to sublet in the first place!

Even laying down conditions in order to grant permission is not without its risks, (primarily to us) but quite frankly I would rather take the chance of being sued for the loss of a tenancy, rather than have do deal with such landlords and tenants once they are in situ.

Paul, I think what you are doing is a really good thing. I also think that the PRS should be a sector of real choice, not somewhere for rogue landlords and agents to hide and crap tenants to be dumped in.

Whilst I appreciate that private tenants have the potenial to be such tenants too, I have to say that my own experiences is that benefit tenants often come with associated problems and therefore need more managing than the average tenant. Personally I am not surprised if many prefer not to do so. I also know that cash-strapped local authorities don't have the resources and with the benefit changes coming into play, the situation is not set to get any better.

I don't know how to improve my block at the moment because of the situations I have described. Nor do I know how I can benefit from your services other than to get my experiences out to a wider landlord audience.

So, thanks for asking me what I thought. I appreciate it.

Sharon

Leasehold Life

03/01/2012
10:16 am
pierceandco.co.uk
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Happy new year to one and all – Another year starts and a stronger line for us all to follow!

So what is my opinion? Well it is simply this. Local Authorities, The Police, Tom **** ******* **** **** ******** ******* ***** **** **** **** ***** ******* ********* ******** *** **** ****** ********** ************ **** *********** ************* & Harry all hide behind the DPA.

We can't release that information because of the DPA

Once you have this answer ask them this

What part of the DPA protects you from issuing false or misleading references for the troublesome HB applicants?

Tessa Shepperton has an interesting article on her website that highlights how the local authorities are seeking to force those tenants onto the private sector but at times come unstuck. And rightfully so! They have spent years being critical of how the PRS treat their tenants but I along with many other landlords/agents, have never lied to any prospective agent or landlord. All our tenants are fully aware that if they mistreat the property or are a dismal tenant then they are going to, not likely to, end up on websites such as this.

The point made above where the LA don't really want to subscribe to these website is a good one. Why would they, when ultimately they are only going to support the ethos behind this website and pass the responsibility back to them if they have the responsibility to house them.

Funnily enough, last week we had a prospective tenant who was on HB looking to rent out one of our properties who had the deposit and was ready to go. He wanted to move out because the property he was in was not habitable and the landlord was not willing to sort it out. When asked for his details so we could do an initial check on this website, he said he would call back but never did and when chased said he had found somewhere else to live. Oh really!!

The judge is Tessa's article makes a good point – Ask for permission and if refused let your gut do the talking.
Not all HB applicants are as bad as the small percentage that ruin it for many. We just need to be vigilant because, as agents, we have a personal and professional responsibility to our landlords but as landlords we have the same responsibility to the neighbours!

Regards

Mark

Mark A Reynolds

Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents

http://www.pierceandco.co.uk

01296 20 1234

03/01/2012
10:48 am
Paul Routledge
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Member Since:
20/05/2011
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CarolePierce said:

Happy new year to one and all – Another year starts and a stronger line for us all to follow!

So what is my opinion? Well it is simply this. Local Authorities, The Police, Tom **** ******* **** **** ******** ******* ***** **** **** **** ***** ******* ********* ******** *** **** ****** ********** ************ **** *********** ************* & Harry all hide behind the DPA.

We can't release that information because of the DPA

Once you have this answer ask them this

What part of the DPA protects you from issuing false or misleading references for the troublesome HB applicants?

Tessa Shepperton has an interesting article on her website that highlights how the local authorities are seeking to force those tenants onto the private sector but at times come unstuck. And rightfully so! They have spent years being critical of how the PRS treat their tenants but I along with many other landlords/agents, have never lied to any prospective agent or landlord. All our tenants are fully aware that if they mistreat the property or are a dismal tenant then they are going to, not likely to, end up on websites such as this.

The point made above where the LA don't really want to subscribe to these website is a good one. Why would they, when ultimately they are only going to support the ethos behind this website and pass the responsibility back to them if they have the responsibility to house them.

Funnily enough, last week we had a prospective tenant who was on HB looking to rent out one of our properties who had the deposit and was ready to go. He wanted to move out because the property he was in was not habitable and the landlord was not willing to sort it out. When asked for his details so we could do an initial check on this website, he said he would call back but never did and when chased said he had found somewhere else to live. Oh really!!

The judge is Tessa's article makes a good point – Ask for permission and if refused let your gut do the talking.
Not all HB applicants are as bad as the small percentage that ruin it for many. We just need to be vigilant because, as agents, we have a personal and professional responsibility to our landlords but as landlords we have the same responsibility to the neighbours!

Regards

Mark

Hi Carole & Mark,

We get it all the time now when tenants are told they are going to be checked out on LandlordReferencing systems they don't bother coming back and to me that's the reason to be a member right there! prevention is better than cure, I truly think the more we get the message out there this year the safer we all will be and the more "some tenants" will realise it's not a free for all in this Country to destroy someone elses property, cheat them out of the money you owe and ruin their livelihood just because you have a tenancy agreement. Time for change!! Yell 

03/01/2012
10:53 am
Paul Routledge
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Forum Posts: 3415
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Sharon said:

Hi Paul,

I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle. I have a very, very long story but to cut it short, it took  4 years to take over the management then the freehold of our block of 22 flats. We were forced to do this because our freeholder was found to be in jail for Customs and Excise fraud and the managing agents (his daughters) insisted the block was nothing to do with them. They completely removed themselves from the equation by getting struck off at Companies House by not filing, the only penalty to them being whatever CH fined for failing to file.

When we finally succeeded in first securing a managing agent, then the freehold, none of our landlords had permission to sublet, simply because there was no one to seek permission from. Our lease requires such permission to be sought. Not only can we not get our landlords to seek retrospective permission, we can't get new ones to get permission either as the covenants to sublet are continuing to be ignored by the conveyancers.

Currently we have a tenant on site who is nothing short of a sociopath. The subletting covenants were again ignored and a combination of her agressive and malicious behaviour and her landlords total failure to either serve an eviction notice for arrears (which he confirms she is in) and control the number of people she appears to have living in her flat has resulted in an absolute nightmare for the owner-occupiers in the flat below (who are a couple of pensioners in their eighties).

We now have to go for forfeiture of the lease, which is not an overnight process.

I have asked my local authority why they consider it acceptable to keep pushing benefit tenants into the private sector with no attempt to check on the suitability of the landlord to be operating as such, let alone whether such a tenant is fit to be left to her own devices. This particular tenant alledges she had no choice but to take the property when she was offered it. She also needs the kind of help that only social services can provide.  I am not a social worker. I belive she may be on a rent deposit scheme but because we don't get any tenant information I have to make an educated guess.  Additionally, when tenants are placed here on Private Sector Leasing, the local authorities rely on private sector agents to ensure that firstly the landlord has the correct mortgage to sublet and also has the permission of the freeholder. I don't now about the former but I can certainly state that the latter is ignored, leaving us with the ludicrous situation of landlords who don't have freeholder permission to sublet handing over their properties to the council (who have full nomination rights and the property for a three to five year period) who also don't check whether freeholder permission has been granted.

I've already had to use legislation to get one anti-social tenant under a licence removed and whilst I was researching how to do this, I also found that not only did the council not need to know about our management structure, but we could have more than one authority involved in this particular scheme as they have reciprocal arrangements for sharing property when a borough runs out.

Add to this the fact that a tenant will not voluntary remove themselves if they want the local authority to re-house them because if they do they will be deemed to have made themselves deliberately homeless, then our neighbours nightmare is set to continue, whilst I try to wrest the lease away a landlord who, had the subletting covenants not been ignored, would likely not have been given permission to sublet in the first place!

Even laying down conditions in order to grant permission is not without its risks, (primarily to us) but quite frankly I would rather take the chance of being sued for the loss of a tenancy, rather than have do deal with such landlords and tenants once they are in situ.

Paul, I think what you are doing is a really good thing. I also think that the PRS should be a sector of real choice, not somewhere for rogue landlords and agents to hide and crap tenants to be dumped in.

Whilst I appreciate that private tenants have the potenial to be such tenants too, I have to say that my own experiences is that benefit tenants often come with associated problems and therefore need more managing than the average tenant. Personally I am not surprised if many prefer not to do so. I also know that cash-strapped local authorities don't have the resources and with the benefit changes coming into play, the situation is not set to get any better.

I don't know how to improve my block at the moment because of the situations I have described. Nor do I know how I can benefit from your services other than to get my experiences out to a wider landlord audience.

So, thanks for asking me what I thought. I appreciate it.

Sharon

Leasehold Life

Hi Sharon

It is very sad but it is a problem I am hearing more and more of every day from landlords and good tenants alike, some are suffering tremendously from landlords who own leases in shared freehold buildings and especially old converted buildings which have been broken up and badly converted and who have not done good referencing and/or just let it out to the first “Punter” who views and offers them the right cash.

Most of these buildings have been bought by builders and converted as cheap as possible and then passed on with a tempting BMV price tag and are then picked up by novice landlords as a cheap buy to let to maximize the rental yield and what amazes me is the think they were the only ones that thought of it.

Unfortunately these buildings are a disaster area which now with Government  austerity and tenant migration are going to end up near as damn ghettos.  I say this because most of these types of property’s are so difficult to look after with so many different absent landlords, substandard builds that allow you to hear the pin drop next door and of course general anti-social behaviour which comes from the only people that can and will move in. it is a downward spiral and that is why we as a company will only ever buy and manage them if we own every flat in the block. I constantly get offered converted buildings at up to 50% BMV and always say no because If I really want constant problems and pain morning noon and night I will put my mitt in a mincer!

I personally believe that there should be a very quick arbitration board within local authorities that have the power to seize and take control of these premises from neglectful landlords and deal with troublesome tenants therein within weeks and not years.

I know I seem to take a hard line but I think we need to take a hard line and If a landlord is not up to scratch take away his property and if the tenant is troublesome take away their home.

Regarding your question “I don't know how to improve my block at the moment because of the situations I have described. Nor do I know how I can benefit from your services other than to get my experiences out to a wider landlord audience”. I believe that by you getting all the landlords in your block to join us you are immediately creating a unity of trust between one another you can register and search all your new tenants TOGETHER that come into your block. An old cliché is united we stand divided we fall. I believe that to offer the hand of unity through a common denominator like http://www.landlordreferencing.co.uk will be a start, put up the front door stickers and set yourself a committee through us let all tenants know what we do and how it can affect them long term and of course as a starting point it will cost them nothing and their failure to be part of it will prove them negligent.

I hope this helps because I sympathise with what landlords in this situation are suffering but as you say the situation is going to get worse rather than better, I can only assure you we are here free as long as possible to help stop these bad tenants that cause these problems getting in and moving on.

Paul Confused

03/01/2012
10:55 am
pierceandco.co.uk
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@ Routeledge

aaaannndddddd breathe!

Mark A Reynolds

Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents

http://www.pierceandco.co.uk

01296 20 1234

03/01/2012
11:09 am
Paul Routledge
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Ha Ha! so much to say and do in such little time eh!! Surprised 

03/01/2012
3:04 pm
Sharon
Guest
Guests

Thanks for the reply and suggestion Paul. Unfortunately the landlords on my block will not be remotely interested in signing up to your organisation because they couldn't care less about what their tenants get up to. Most of them are the very types that are bringing the undoubtedly good landlords out there into disrepute.

A double whammy for me I'm afraid.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is there are good and bad landlords and good and bad tenants. I just currently have more than my fair share of bad in both, although in all fairness the good (on both sides) are usually very good! 🙂

03/01/2012
3:35 pm
Paul Routledge
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Sharon said:

Thanks for the reply and suggestion Paul. Unfortunately the landlords on my block will not be remotely interested in signing up to your organisation because they couldn't care less about what their tenants get up to. Most of them are the very types that are bringing the undoubtedly good landlords out there into disrepute.

A double whammy for me I'm afraid.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is there are good and bad landlords and good and bad tenants. I just currently have more than my fair share of bad in both, although in all fairness the good (on both sides) are usually very good! 🙂

Well that's a great shame Sharon but hopefully one day good tenants will be able to only go to landlords who are registered with us because landlords who join us do say "they care" as a community.

I am aware of a couple of landlords and 1 Agent that have not joined us the Agent wont use us because it costs him applicants and I know they are all taking the bad ones, they have had 2 from me that I know of, I know that does not help your building or situation and therefore all we can offer you is to say we are here to help in any way we can. Obviously we are a pro-active company that tries to prevent situations but we can only help by being their for our members after the event.

Frown

Paul

03/01/2012
4:41 pm
Paul Routledge
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mary latham said:

In my article here

http://www.property118.com/ind.....more-19819

I warn landlords about the increasing risk of taking on tenants with anti social behaviour.  I know that many landlords are concerned about the decrease in LHA this year and of course this is an important issue but for me the BIG issue is tenant who choose not to pay their rent wether they are on LHA or not and tenants who choose to behave in a way that makes those who live around them unhappy and insecure.  This site is the answer to this big problem and, as I said on the thread above I tell every landlord that I meet to join because it is only when we are all contributing that we are keeping ourselves and each other safe from badly behaved tenants

Hi Mary,

I cant believe that some landlords still say a credit reference or a own home reference is enough for them and a lifestyle reference doesn't really matter because they have never done it before makes me wonder how some older landlords get around still without the man in front of them with a red flag eh!Cry

03/01/2012
4:45 pm
pierceandco.co.uk
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... makes me wonder how some older landlords get around still without the man in front of them with a red flag eh!

And a bale of hay for the horse!

Mark A Reynolds

Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents

http://www.pierceandco.co.uk

01296 20 1234

03/01/2012
4:46 pm
Paul Routledge
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Ha ha when I ask them to join they say Neigh neighLaugh

03/01/2012
4:54 pm
pierceandco.co.uk
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:GROAN: Yell

Mark A Reynolds

Pierce & Co Residential Letting Agents

http://www.pierceandco.co.uk

01296 20 1234

08/01/2012
6:42 am
PaulBarrett
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Am I being a bit naive here;  don't the landlords who aren't concerned about what their tenants get up to concerned about income stream and value of property.

Get yourself a wrongun tenant who might not

pass on rent

might burn the place down

might be an ASBO job

Might steal items from the property

So property is trashed and tenant vacates eventully once he has been evicted....lost rental income never to be recovered

Refurbishment cost for flat to be relet.

Atempt to sell with the reputation the block will have ...not a chance....no capital value.

So tell me why do these landlords think they don't need the FREE services of LRS!!!!!???

08/01/2012
6:51 am
PaulBarrett
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I am afraid I agree with the degree of cynicism being expressed here regarding the social sector passing on all their dross to the PRS.

If the social sector won't accept them and the PRS won't because it is clued up with LRS then where will these wronguns go?

I have to say I don't care as long as I don't end up with them.

Which I won't as I will use LRS and RGI policies meaning I will NEVER be affected by these wronuns.

If EVERY landlord did the same the councils would be left with a huge amount of tenants who could not be placed in the PRS cause we all use LRS etc.

That is obviously the ultimate situation.

However despite the govt platitudes there is no way that they want PRS landlords using LRS as the councils would be b------d!!

Perhaps the councils have to start thinking outside the box and offering free insurance policies  to landlords to convince the PRS to take on these wronguns which we will know ALL about because of LRS!

09/01/2012
9:46 am
Paul Routledge
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PaulBarrett said:

I am afraid I agree with the degree of cynicism being expressed here regarding the social sector passing on all their dross to the PRS.

If the social sector won't accept them and the PRS won't because it is clued up with LRS then where will these wronguns go?

I have to say I don't care as long as I don't end up with them.

Which I won't as I will use LRS and RGI policies meaning I will NEVER be affected by these wronuns.

If EVERY landlord did the same the councils would be left with a huge amount of tenants who could not be placed in the PRS cause we all use LRS etc.

That is obviously the ultimate situation.

However despite the govt platitudes there is no way that they want PRS landlords using LRS as the councils would be b------d!!

Perhaps the councils have to start thinking outside the box and offering free insurance policies  to landlords to convince the PRS to take on these wronguns which we will know ALL about because of LRS!

Hi Paul,

I agree as a landlord we are not there to police our communities, however we can protect ourselves from taking a bad tenant with our system and keep them out of our properties for good. however I cant see that they will take out insurance policies on behalf of landlords to protect their rent and I don't think the insurers will want to underwrite that sort of tenant anyway.

In fact we have been approached by one of the UK's largest insurance company's who have suddenly woken up to the fact that they are insuring tenants that come up clean on credit referencing company's but have a history of bad debt and damage with landlords. In a recent meeting one chief he sat there open mouthed as he realised that they were insuring against tenants that we were sending out alerts on, on the  very same day.

Paul

09/01/2012
4:18 pm
Sharon
Guest
Guests

Thought you all might like to read my experiences of benefit tenants with drink, drugs and mental health issues on my Leasehold Life site.

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