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6:49 pm
14/08/2012
OfflineHi all,
I'm a new new private landlord (Scotland) and it looks likely I'm getting my fingers burnt at 1st lease.
I've had a tenant in my property for approaching 10 months now, and she is in arrears (£400) each month for several months now the monthly payment has been short.
I was (kind of) friends with her beforehand (thats my 1st mistake I know) and thought I could trust her (2nd mistake), I left various items in the property with her being a single mum, and never took any deposit from her.
Would I be right in saying my best option is to serve a Section 21 to let her know the lease is not getting renewed, and a Notice to Quit, I have until the end of this month which gives her 2 months notice, and then I need to decide whether to sell the property or to rent out again, privately or through an agency.
Does anyone have any experience with chasing rent arrears,which I guess will be to the tune of £500 come the end of the lease, or is it not worth it?
Any advice wellcome and appreciated.
Hi Serve the Section 21 now don't wait until the last minute, the 2 months is minimum. Get a witness statement to say that the witness saw you give/post/put through the door the S21. Make sure that you ask for possession on the expiry of the last day of the rent period, the day before the rent is due again. You don't need to do anything else until the day after the Notice expires and then if she has not left, many tenants just move out, you need to get your S21 Notice enforced with a Court Order.
Using S21 will not give you your rent arrears but you can sue her for that separately and she will then have a county court judgement against her – Is it worth it? Thats your decision. It is worth registering her on this site so that she will find it more difficult to do the same to another landlord and that will give you some statisfation too I find.
I don't want to rub it in but many people make the mistake that you have made and in my opinion it is much better to go for a stranger on a business arrangement. Why not try one more let and see how it goes – you have already learned a hard lesson why waste the knowledge?
Good luck
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LandlordXX (on twitter) replies :
' Never take single mothers – they are a bloody nuisance!!! '
Hi Andy Nicol,
You will see all of us at landlordreferencing.co.uk strive to help new landlords to get it right and of course with such professionals like Mary you always get great free advice "Dont be shy to ask" and as she say's I would give it one more go.
A couple of things you need to take a look at is tenancy protocol help and another thing you may wish to do is make sure you lifestyle reference through us free and always carry out a ID and credit check through our national sponsors Rentshield direct you can also protect your rent and property with rent guarantee cover from them and I find them the best in the market at the best price and as a sponsor they keep all the other services free.
Follow me on twitter @Paul_Rout
10:29 pm
13/02/2012
OfflineHi Andy
On our journey of being a Landlord we let property to extended family members who sadly let us down.
One reported me to the local paper and they run a story on the Tenant and the bad Landlord (Me) under 'Brother-In-law evicts single father of 3 children'.
A second gave us a house back dirty, no carpets in the hall and living room and a shed full of crap.
Sadly other family members get involved and take sides.
We now say 'No' to extended members of family and all must go through a credit check.
As the guidance given learn by your previous decision, take action, rewrite what boxes your future Tenants must tick, and move on.
Good luck
Steve
Polar Property Services
There is of course the other risk in that if a family member needs to receive LHA the council will refuse to pay as the LL has too close a family relationship.
Bet you didn't think of that one when you let to them, did you!!
There are so many ways these tricky councils operate, you find it hard coming up with a defence against their decitful actions.
Personally I can't see what is wrong with renting to a family member.
They have to rent somewhere, so why should the council not pay a relation LL the same as an unrelated LL?
But rules is rules and councils will use every which way of those rules to avoid paying a LL.
I would not let to family or friends, because when they run short of money they call on you and that means not paying the rent which in turn puts you in a horrendously compromised position. I would say to any new landlord do not mix buisness with pleasure and this article from a new landlord couple with their first let says it all.
Help recovery of property and rent arrears.
8:58 am
Paul,
Wise words, I let to my brother and he still owes me £4100. I don't see much of him now because we are in a very akward position, he knows I need the money and he does not have it. Do not rent to friends and family period
8:59 am
Hi Paul
Re: There is of course the other risk in that if a family member needs to receive LHA the council will refuse to pay as the LL has too close a family relationship.
Bet you didn't think of that one when you let to them, did you!!
This is not always the case.
I do have my close family in my property.
Sadly during the time they have rented the property they have had to claim housing benefit and initially the housing benefit refused to pay. The claimant and I was able to show how long they had rented by showing a AST and rental payment methods. On winning the appeal the claim was back dated.
The claimant started work for a new employer which was on a short contract. When they claimed housing benefit for a second time it was paid from the start of the claim.
One of the extended family members was always on housing benefit and we received the housing benefit direct from the start of the claim. We always disclosed our relationship with the claimant.
10:56 am
Tricky one. Possibly better to refer friends & family to a trusted contact and not do personally?
PaulBarrett said
There is of course the other risk in that if a family member needs to receive LHA the council will refuse to pay as the LL has too close a family relationship.Bet you didn't think of that one when you let to them, did you!!
There are so many ways these tricky councils operate, you find it hard coming up with a defence against their decitful actions.
Personally I can't see what is wrong with renting to a family member.
They have to rent somewhere, so why should the council not pay a relation LL the same as an unrelated LL?
But rules is rules and councils will use every which way of those rules to avoid paying a LL.
Paul this is not the local authority being "tricky" they are sticking to the rules. Let me tell you a true story about a family I know.
This lady lived in her own home with two teenage children. She met and married a man and they decided to live together – but did not want to share their home with the teenagers. The bought a property for themselves and moved in leaving the two teenagers in their original home. The teenagers – both of whom were unemployed – then claimed LHA and paid it to their mother. The name of the mother was now different to their names and the local authority did not realise that this family were breaking the rules.
In my opinion this mother is using my tax pounds to keep her kids in their home because she wants to walk away from her responsiblities and financial committments while at the same time keep her property asset!
I have heard similar stories where a parent has moved out of a council property and allowed the children to remain and to claim Housing Benefit – this is breaking two rules.
Here is the source document for these rules http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publicat…..g-benefit/
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Yes I see what you are saying, you make extremely valid points.
However the suggested scenario involves the parties in committing fraud.
If she didn't receive LHA directly then the council would have no chance of clawback.
I agree that this could facilitate fraud and using more of your tax pounds…………..and mine!; so I can see why councils impose a blanket ban.
Surely though a case by case situation could be utilised, though I appreciate name changes of women are very difficult to manage.
I had a LHA fraudster tenant who had 3 surnames and PRS fraudster tenant who had 3 surnames!!
Both women.
I would think that providing confirmatory tabs can be kept on family members then it shouldn't be too difficult, but I do see how the benefit system can be taken advantage of.
Perhaps some sort of legally binding undertaking that in the event of circumstances you quoted that no LHA would be paid to remaining children etc.
Though the more you think about it one can see why the council can't be bothered with all the hassle and impose a blanket ban.
4:48 pm
William said
Paul,Wise words, I let to my brother and he still owes me £4100. I don't see much of him now because we are in a very akward position, he knows I need the money and he does not have it. Do not rent to friends and family period
I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH WILLIAM THERE. I ATTEMPTED HELPING MY NIECE AND HER BOYFRIEND WHEN MY SISTER THREW THEM OUT. COMPLICATED SCENARIO BUT TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT I HAD TO EVICT THEM AND TO THIS DAY THEY STILL OWE ME OVER £3000. WE DO NOT SPEAK NOW, WHICH IS SUCH A SHAME REALLY. ![]()
Oooh I forgot another one that stitched me up, who was the daughter of my partner who I let out a flat to , with no deposit.
LHA was reduced she didn't pay the difference, flat repossessed as I did not have the money to subsidise her lifestyle.
She walked away and is in PRS accommodation paid for by the council.
Has she repaid any of the rent owing,no.
Will she pay any of the £62000 shortfall on the forced sale of the flat plus loss of capital gain and purchase cost;………..NO
Being nice to associates or family memmbers just means you will be heading for a fall!!
6:44 pm
The Scottish legal system is quite different from the English in some respects – I have no idea whether this applies to landlord and tenant law but Andy Nicol should check this out to ensure that any action he takes is in accordance with Scots law and procedures.
10:20 pm
14/08/2012
OfflineTo expand from my OP, my tenant is not a family member, I knew her vaguely as she rented a property in my same street.
The opportunity arose that I move into a property my in-laws were about to put on the market – so in short I now rent from my in-laws and rent out my own property, I don't make anything out of this scenario, it is purely a short-term fix until the market picks up, when it does I will be selling my property and buying the one I'm current;y 'renting' from the in-laws (the've moved abroad).
David Heal is spot on, Sottish law is totally different from English, if any Scottish landlords can advise I'd be grateful.
I'm at the stage where I just want the tenant out as she has taken advantage big time, she is a single mum with 3 kids, I've left bunk beds, doubled bed, tv's in all rooms, washing machine, tumble dryer, all crockery in kitchen, all kitchen appliances kettle toaster et al, as my in-laws left all the same to me, I had 2 of everything !
My best option unless anyone can advise differently is to serve a Section 21 and a Notice to Quit which is purely to let her know the lease will not be renewed and I will re-take possession of the property.
£400 arrears at the moment will no doubt be £500 in 2 months time (£50 short each month has been the norm ) – much as I loathe to say it, I'm guessing I should right it off…?
As sson as she is 1 month and 1 day in arrears if rent is paid in advance claim LHA directly to your bank account.
Section 21, yes.
She won't leave as she will wait to be evicted so she will be housed by the council.
It will take about 10 months to ultimately evict her.
Issue the Section 21 and then the day after 2 months have passed submit the accelerated possession paperwork to county court.
This is the English procedure.
Remember a Section 21 is only notice of intent to require possession of the property.
You should issue a notice to quit confirming that the tenancy will end at the expiration of the 6 month AST.
The ONLY way you may take possession of your property is for a bailiff to enforce an eviction order.
This is only if the tenant fails to surrender the tenancy.
Tenants are advised by councils not to leave until and eviction notice is enforced.
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