31/10/2011 
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4:29 pm
12/10/2011
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QuoteOver the past week I have had 4 DSS Tenants – all of whom are under 35 and all of whom have done a runner taking their HB payments with them following notification from the Council that their rent was being reduced from £96.92 a week to £68.50.
I have been left with unpaid rent and property damage in the region of £4000 – all in one week – how in the hell is this going to get any better?
As a Landlord I truly cannot survive these sort of losses and if this continues I just wont even be able to pay my mortgages, the very same mortgages that have doubled in price thanks to the Banks and their mess ups.
I have issued 4 tenant alerts this week, me, just one Landlord, I cannot urge people hard enough to tell every Landlord to join LRS so that I wont be faced with taking one of their bad tenants.
4:42 pm
17/05/2012
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Sharon I am really sorry that you are in this situation and my guess is that you will be speaking for many landlords at the moment – this is VERY worrying and will only get worse when they are also expected to contribute to Council Tax. I wish I knew the answer but apart from landlords using LRS to warn each other I have no idea what any of us can do. We need to hope that they will come to realise that landlords are sharing the information and that they will struggle to find another home.
Follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets
4:49 pm
12/10/2011
OfflineI WISH I could understand why more landlords are not members and not actively contributing to the data base to help prevent this happening to other Landlords as it is not only Under 35's who take the money and run
4:56 pm
20/05/2011
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Sharon,
I am seeing it myself every day, No money, No deposits, benefits cut, Under 35s applying for flats they can not afford.
I have had a single divorced lady in today who has lost her job in a bakery and cannot find another job, she cannot afford to pay the rent on her flat and has to move out, the only thing she has been offered is a house share with 4 men and who she says all look like drunkards and ex cons.
MR Shapps this is not acceptable for people who have worked and paid taxes and cannot now find work to be put in this position.
4:58 pm
17/05/2012
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Sharon your post has been read by over 270 in a half an hour – You are doing what we all must do and that is to spread the word and share the info with LRS
Follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets
6:09 pm
12/10/2011
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I think it is getting to the stage where servicing the itnerant LHA tenantbase is just not worth the hassle anymore.
To the point where HMO LL will just give up and sell up or convert and rent to normal tenants.
There will be more stringent welfare cuts, £10 billion after the next election.
It just is not worth the hassle for an extra £300 per month.
This will make letting to LHA tenants even more impossible.
But of course the effect of govt action is causing a massive rise in demand for single room type accommodation, just when LL who offer this type of accommodation are being assailed from all sides.
It surely is now not worth bothering with.
What happens to these tenants as increasing LL exit this property rental type
I think most like Sharon who has just suffered enormous losses, just won't care.
They will have been forced into exiting and it will be councils picking up even more expensive TA bills.
So that has been effective govt and council planning then, hasn't it!……………………..NOT!
Those tenants that stiched up Sharon will find a mug LL somewhere and will do the same thing to him and so it goes on with no redress for the LL with DPA being quoted all the time and no possibility of tracking down these criminals, for that is what they are.
Who'd be a LL eh!!!
Funny they never mention these issues at these property wealth creation seminars!?…………………………….I wonder why!!!?
10:18 pm
Thanks for posting this story – it's a reality check. I haven't had much turnover for the past year and, when I do advertise, am surprised that the responses are from as many working people looking for rooms as LHA claimants. Five years ago it was mainly DSS so now I'm lucky to be able to chose. I now regard LHA tenants on a case by case basis and, as long as they have a proven history, am happy to take them.
I've just taken on the management of 2 HMOs and tasked with filling 10 rooms for someone else so it'll be interesting to see the demand from LHA vs working. If it's any comfort I've had quite a few run off with their payments but then again I've had working people not pay their rent for 2 months – think I'd rather they ran off than go through the eviction procedure! The damages are harder to stomsch.
9:16 am
20/05/2011
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I myself have had 2 runners over the last 2 weeks totalling £1,143. We had 23 new members yesterday from people reading these stories because we all know we need to protect one another from just taking the runners from one another as they move around.
Not one of these runners will ever get taken to court by anyone of us so the truth is the only way we can stop it is to get everyone we know to join us on this website and work together with tenant alerts and uploads and you know what? it is very simple: "We wont take one another bad tenants or runners"
Follow me on twitter @ Paul_Rout
10:22 am
There are bad tenants, and there are bad landlords. We can't sit around waiting for the government to create a list, with all their rules and regulations.
6:10 pm
20/05/2011
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Blacklist,
As you may not know landlordReferencing.co.uk is far from waiting for the Government to act. We have been going for 21/2 years and are the most respectable and supportive lifestyle data base in the UK today, with over 20,000+ members and 1.2 million hits a month, we stop bad tenants in their track on a daily basis every day.
We also work with good tenants to get the recognition they deserve if they have a bad credit rating or even bad landlords. We offer total unity to all landlords and letting agents in the Uk to support one another in being the gatekeepers to our communities and have just partnered with Neighbourhood Watch to protect communities even further.
I hope you enjoy our service and look forward to your vigor and input to the web site on both keeping us in touch with the bad uns and on the forums.
Paul
Follow me on twitter Paul_Rout
10:43 am
24/05/2012
OfflinePaul Routledge said
I myself have had 2 runners over the last 2 weeks totalling £1,143. We had 23 new members yesterday from people reading these stories because we all know we need to protect one another from just taking the runners from one another as they move around.Not one of these runners will ever get taken to court by anyone of us so the truth is the only way we can stop it is to get everyone we know to join us on this website and work together with tenant alerts and uploads and you know what? it is very simple: "We wont take one another bad tenants or runners"
Follow me on twitter @ Paul_Rout
I took Ruth Arnold to court as she did a runner with nearly 6 months rent. I obtained a judgement. Of course she is now on HB and I cant recoup the money but when I asked if the CCJ was registered, the court told me that it wasn't automatically done in the case of rent arrears and that I should email in and specifically as for this to be done. I did that immediately.
Two weeks later – nothing. I rang the court AGAIN and asked why its not been done. I explained that landlords rely on credit searches and if CCJs aren't registered, these people can keep on fleecing landlords. The very 'sniffy and iffy' woman at the court who spoke very slowly and patronisingly with words of one syllable (so that I could presumably understand) !!! has now told me that I will have to register an enforcement action before the CCJ can be registered. I asked why as I'd paid out enough already. She said – she wasn't qualified to give legal advice.
That means another £100. My options here are 1) don't bother as I won't get my money back or 2) register it so that it will appear as a CCJ and other landlords will benefit. Hopefully.
What to do?
Julie
12:53 pm
20/05/2011
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And that Julie is exactly why Landlords don't bother to even take tenants to court anymore its a "King Joke"
, even if your new applicant tenant got evicted it may still not show up on a CCJ.
The only way to protect one another and stop taking one another's bad tenants is through landlordreferencing.co.uk. If every Landlord & Letting Agent in the UK registered and uploaded their bad tenant, through our tenant alerts and datya base 1 of them could move without all of us knowing within an hour of them leaving the last landlord and unlike our courts and credit referencing companies it wont cost them a penny.
But how in Gods name do you get the word out to 1.5 million landlords that we can and will save them from a bad tenant free. Sounds easier than it is I promise
2:04 pm
12/10/2011
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I think the problem you are up against Paul R is that it is NOT in anyones interest involved in housing APART from LL to make known widely info about wrongun tenants.
You more than anyone know how many wrongun tenants there are.
Extrapolate from your knowledgebase which I presume is largely based on your membership database acoss all 1.5 million LL, can you imagine the amount of homeless tenants who will have been identified as a result of your ideal 100% tenant database.
We would have hundreds of thousands of tenants that LL would be unlikely ever to accept if they came up as wronguns on your system.
This is why you will NEVER receive official assistance from ANY govt organisation as this site would cost councils millions in TA etc.
It is only from within the industry that we can try and inform LA and LL to use this service.
You would have thought using this LRS service is a bit of a no brainer, but despite this truism there are still hundreds of thousands of LL who are not members.
I find that situation most perplexing.
It is almost like LL are willing to set themselves up to be stitched up by wrongun tenants by NOT using your service in addition to the normal protocols one would go through when sourcing a tenant.
I just don't get it!
Soi I think you can forget any govt assistance to make your service more widely known.
How does one convince the LL who are not members of the efficacy of what after is all is a FREE service that it could save them so much hassle.
I reckon you should somehow get on mortgage statements or paperwork.
this as it is clearly inb the interests of mortgage lenders that a LL does not end up with a wrongun tenant.
It clearly would impact on the,m directly if a LL faces such a situation.
Therefore it is in a lenders' interest to ensure that a LL has a rightun tenant as opposed to aq wrongun.
so why don't lenders tell their borrowers about your service!?
After all it could save them a fortune.
I speak from persoanal experience.
Has I used your service 5 years ago I doubt I would have ended up with the circumstances I have now.
I know better late than never, but surely prevention is better than cure!?
2:46 pm
20/05/2011
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Paul,
I struggle every day with why lenders don't tell their BTL mortgagors to join us, I guess they don't think that actually getting a good tenant is as important as the calculation of whether a rent % stacks up. I am confounded why lenders are so strict that they say you need 2 1/2 times the rental income blah, blah, blah to borrow the money, yet seem to care nothing about the 2 1/2 times actually being collectable.
But they are not the ones that really befuddle me, those are the RGI boys, they don't even worry about the tenant alerts that we send out and I know they are insuring bad tenants with previous histories every day.
One member privately emailed me and said that if he took a tenant that was on our system as a bit iffy he immediately insured them against losses and if they come up as a tenant alert after they are in he again insures them when they are in tenure. Apparently our system gave him an early warning against covering his backside when tenants slipped through the credit reference noose and got approved.
Madness
3:00 pm
12/10/2011
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Yep totally agree; it surely must be obvious even to the most stupidest BTL lender that their business model is predicated on the TENANT paying rent!
It is not based on a LL income etc.
The loan is advanced on rental income.
The tenant provides the income.
Anything a lender could do to ensure the the rent is paid to then ensure the mortgage is paid is surely in LL and lenders' interests or have I fundamentally misunderstood how a BTL mortgage operates!!
LRS details on mortgage paperwork would surely pay dividends for the lender in possibly preventing their borrower taking on a wrongun tenant and then not paying the BTL mortgage!
7:06 pm
Sadly DSS and local authorities are no friends of agents or landlords.they speak fine words but when push comes to shove they do not help you and in fact actively assist their tenants to stay beyond any section 21 order date . You then have to apply for an accelerated possession order and a further baliffs order to get then out and all the time the local authority encourage them to stay until the bitter end , it does not foster good relations between lanldlords and their agent.
Having just had a nightmare tenant ( DSS ) and eventually gained possession we found the property to be in an appalling state , quite unfit to be let again without a lot of time and money being spent. The housing authority in question did their own schedule of condition along side mine and agreed that it was in good condition throughout. They came and inspected the damage and their only comment was that they would speak to the tenant to see what they said!
The landlord has put in claims for all the repairs but has had no option but to start work in order to relet the property to minimise further rent loss. I have spent many hours trying to sort out the huge sums owing to varoious utility companies and demands for payment including solicitors letters.
My advice is never, never ever take DSS in future!! in the current letting market you dont need to.
9:38 pm
12/10/2011
OfflineVery sorry to hear your problems Sharon, I understand what you are going through as I have been there myself. In my experience I have found that DSS, LHA tenants etc are simply too high a risk. From a business point of view, these tenants are simply not worth the risk:reward. The figures do not add up and never will. I have only accepted working tenants for the last 6-7 years and have nigh on eliminated my financial losses, damages, stresses and troubles.
Landlords really must be aware of the pitfalls from having such tenants. British law does NOT protect you or your investment. You will NOT recover your losses, which due to the laws of this land are allowed to accumulate to the point of you losing your property. Your local council will not protect you or assist you with regards to tenants.
Let your council carry the risk themselves and house these tenants in their own properties, maybe then the powers that be will rethink their laws when they are the ones making the losses.
9:58 pm
Wow some thread so where do l start ! Bit of background about me, been acting as a landlord and agent with 500+ DSS tenants and my experience and background in doing this dates back to the 80's.
Sorry Jonathan l have to disagree with you on your comment "My advice is never, never ever take DSS in future!! in the current letting market you dont need to." Over the years our business model has been heavily geared to the DSS market 95% plus of our 500 tenants are all DSS. lf you were to look about our rental income on a line chart, the line doesn't spike up or down, it has just since the 80's gradually risen and we this trend continuing. We have adapted properties and strategies to suit the benefit systems, the simplest current example would be in our HMO's to convert bedsits/rooms to studios to gain the 1 bed rate, we started doing this in 2009.
Very few runners used to exist…that is when (not for long ealry 2008) tenants were being paid housing benefit direct by cheque or into their high street bank account. However with the volume of tenants we have l am proud to say today we do not get housing benefit directly from any local authority for any one tenant. All our tenants are paid directly housing benefit into a nominated account we help setup for them. How do we do this ? We use local credit unions and another landlords national credit union styled payment service called Tasker Payment Services (TPS). By using methods like these landlords can help tenants pay LHA across without the risk of it being spent, or significantly reduce that risk and not experience what you have above. The best service we use is by TPS, for only £3 per payment they will send your tenants LHA across to the landlord the same day as they receive it by Faster Payment. Believe me when you way up a runner who may take you for a £1000 over paying TPS £3 to make sure you get that £1000, it's a no brainer. As TPS are not a credit union they do not have to adhere to a common bond and hence can operate nationally for all your DSS tenants. It is by far the best payment service we are using !
Hope this helps. l'm a big advocate of DSS as my business model has demonstrated how a long term strategy with dealing with this DSS tenants can pay, depsite a few short term "hassles" & "experinces" that you may experience along the way.
DSS tenants are a particular breed, but with experience you'll become used to dealing with them and be able to spot a bad egg. l'd also advise landlords to know and educate yourself with the benefits system, useful tips and learn things like…How often do the LA pay LHA to tenants ? (procure and end tenancies on these dates) Is a fastrack claim process available with your LA ? What info does your tenant need to make a successful HB claim ? Hand deliver claim forms and all housing benefit post o prevent Royal Mail losing them risking your rent payments ? Keep a twice weekly check on all new HB claims and queries with your LA ? Does your LA allow online claims ? Have an authority for every tenant to discuss his/her claim with the LA ? The list is endless but by ticking all these boxes will make you less likely experience a runner and help protect your income stream.
7:14 am
12/10/2011
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I think if you have experience and systems in place to manage LHA tenants then yes it is a good business model.
However it is the little LL that tends to get stitched up by these wrongun LHA claimants.
Most small LL haven't got the time or money to risk on a LHA claimant.
You clearly know the game inside out and back to front; which is great for you, most little LL don't know how the system works and so avoid it as they hear the horror stories.
Perhaps on your new website you could have tutorial videos as this information provision might attract dubious LL to let their properties out.
As you seem to have some efficacious management systems in place you might even pick up business from those dubious LL as you seem to have a good track record.
You can't blame LL feeling the way they do about LHA claimants.
It is not they have anything against them per se; it is the iniquitous system which conspires against LL to obtain redress when it all goes wrong.
A real clincher for you to drive traffic to your site would be to offer RGI for LHA claimants.
No RGI company will cover people on HB.
I reckon you could convince a RGI underwriter to take such risks on if some of your management systems were in place.
Premiums would be more; but I think you would be looking at about £300 for an average £750 rent.
This would be one of the bigger persuaders for LL to take on tenants.
Tenants would pay the premium in their monthly rent and would effectively guarantee the LL from rent loss.
£5.70 per week is peanuts for a tenant to persuade a LL to take them on.
Personally I refuse to take on a tenant who cannot pass a RGI check.
An LHA RGI policy could be a real market breaker to persuade LL to take on LHA claimants.
Irrespective though your propostion looks very interesting and as you say it will assist people looking for LL that will accept LHA tenants.
Though for ther life of me I can't work out why the major property portals haven't an easy way to identify properties on their sites that will accept 'DSS'.
They are missing a trick here, which you have identified as a marketing opportunity.
I reckon as LL become aware of your new site they will be flocking to it.
Hopefully the councils will mention your site aswell to applicants.
You could even persuade councils to put their property swaps on your site aswell as this will drive more traffic;if a tenant can't find a swap they may find a LL that has a PRS property available.
1:30 pm
12/10/2011
OfflineThere is only one sure solution to the under 35 problem, do not take ANY tenants under 35 just in case a working tenant loses his job. Over the past two years my company has purged all its properties of under 35 tenants (entirely by natural wastage) and now we have only two left and they have lost their jobs. We have no choice but to evict as we cannot afford the loss of rent.
The local charities are desperate for accommodation for under 35's as many LLs are of a similar mind.
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